It’s not rape if you think they’re awake

For those who do not know, the Good Men Project has angered feminist… again. This time, the backlash came from GMP running two articles, one about a “nice guy” who raped a woman who spent months flirting with him, and the other an anonymous account from a man who admits he has likely raped several women while binging out and does not intend to stop.

The articles have some issues that are worth addressing, but to be honest I am somewhat tired of having to go down that road with GMP.

I am also tired of having to go down this road with feminists. I am referring to many internet feminists’ tendency to pounce on anyone they think does not tow the party line, even if they have done the very thing they accuse their target of doing. This current feminist onslaught against GMP is being lead by Jill Filipovic from Feministe. She took issue with GMP’s articles, labeling the site a “MRA hellhole”. She has apparently made it her goal to shut GMP down, force a restructure of the site by getting GMP founder Tom Matlack to bow out and have the moderators ban all “MRAs” from commenting on the site, and/or get every outlet that features GMP content to cut their ties.

Of course, the grand irony of Jill’s rage against GMP for running the two articles, particularly the article by Alyssa Royse about the “nice guy” rapist, is that Jill published a similar article back in September. I wrote about the piece, calling it out for the hypocritical rape apologism that it was.

In the article, Jill could not quite bring herself to count a woman having sex with her sleeping boyfriend who she says she thought was awake as rape. Jill certainly could not bring herself to call the woman a bad person or rapist, even though earlier in her piece she claimed that she did not buy into the idea of an accidental, unintentional rape.

While I have no particular allegiance to GMP, I do not like seeing people get picked on by folks who do the same thing they blast others for. So I tweeted to Jill and GMP that it is rather hypocritical for Jill to attack the blog, and Jill responded with snark:

She later went on to deny she wrote the article in question, but after I posted the link again she dropped that. I was content with allowing her to make a fool of herself by defending something she has spent the last week trashing GMP for running, but then she tweeted this:

I had to read it a couple of times to make sure I got it right, because it looks very much like Jill wrote it is not rape if you think the sleeping person is awake.

This is the same person accusing GMP of rape apologism for running an article written by an anonymous guy with a notice from GMP stating that they do not support the man or endorse any of his actions, and an article written by a woman who’s friend she still considers a “nice guy” even though she thinks is he a rapist and convinced that he was for having sex with a sleeping woman who had spent months flirting with him.

When I tell feminists that other feminists say truly egregious nonsense, the first response is “not any feminist I know.” Well, Jill Filipovic is a feminist they would know. She has a popular blog that is linked to by virtually every feminist blog I have glanced at over the last three years. This is a prominent feminist figure, and she just excused a woman raping her sleeping boyfriend on the grounds that somehow a woman purposefully putting a man’s penis into her vagina does not count as intentional and therefore is magically different than a man intentionally putting his penis into a woman’s vagina.

This is the kind of thing plenty of feminists would never believe happens, and I want to make it clear that the comment was unprompted. Jill tweeted that all on her own. I would love to say I am surprised, but given some of her recent writings I would be lying.

Again, just to be clear, Jill’s argument is that it is not rape if a woman has sex with a sleeping man who may have a sleeping disorder if the woman thinks he is awake.

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25 thoughts on “It’s not rape if you think they’re awake

  1. ….and have the moderators ban all “MRAs” from commenting on the site…
    That shit will happen over my cold dead computer….

    So when woman does it it’s sleep walking but when a man does it it’s rape?

  2. Kettle, meet Pot. Your so much alike you’ll make great friends. Try not to throw stones at each others glass houses.

  3. she brings up a legal concept-mens rea…

    ie-if the woman didn’t know the man had a sleeping disorder…

    unfortunately the only info we have is the short story from Dan Savage’s site. Part of me suspects that the original story could be made up…

    she seems to be doing a bunch of mental gymnastics to protect a female perp. Would she do the same for a male perp? What if in the story, it was a woman who was the “sleepwalker”? Would Amanda Marcotte made the same comments?

    https://stonerwithaboner.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/rape-apologia/

  4. @JillFilipovic @jlandrith @GoodMenProject Just so I’m clear: it’s not rape if you think the sleeping person with a sleep disorder is awake?

    Some say that looks it’s fine to rape if you think the person is awake – I read it with and extra special twist of Sour Lime that would Have Little Silly Jilly Filipovic swearing off the Mai Tais for all eternity.

    A sleep disorder is an impairment – disability, So @JillFilipovic is fine with Disability Discrimination and raping and sexually abusing Disabled folks just so long as she doesn’t get caught doing it – Girls when you want a ride and you just can’t be bothered with men you have been educated to do consent:

    Rape the Amnesiacs!
    Rape the Narcoleptics!
    Rape the Cataplectic!
    Rape the Somnambulists!
    Rape the guys with Sleep talking (somniloquy) – just ask him to say yes and then “Fuck Him”!

    Some people are just so Institutional in their views and mindsets. It’s also the same as saying if someone is raped under the influence of drugs – be that Flunitrazepam/Rohypnol, or any drug that impairs the ability to consent, it does not matter. Consent is Consent … so if you stick a gun to their head and ask them politely if you can Fuck them Over and they say yes – Jobs done – consent covered – just Fuck Um as you please – Silly Jilly Filipovic says Do As I Say – Not As I Do!

    Let us not forget that the dear Jilly was apoplectic over that idea “Some Girls Rape Easy” – cos there is no such thing as easy rape unless the target is an impaired male. Her institutional and institutionalised credentials shine through.

    I do like it when she says “The fundamental problem here is that conservatives don’t trust women to run our own lives.” – but she can’t trust men with controlling who uses them as sexual toys when they are disabled – and being able to get it right and know when they have been raped. Her hypocrisy is so deeply rooted. I’m shocked she can find any concealer to meet her needs – strong enough and supplied in industrial packaging… oh she can’t and her Hypocrisy and Biases just keep being revealed.

    And she wonders why people ask if she’s available for Halloween to scare children?

    She has so many opinions as the Guardian of rape, it’s amazing – but one thing I do know is that The Guardian Of Manchester has a terrible low and dim view of Sexual abuse of the Disabled and of negative views in general.

    30 Sept 1972 – the date The Guardian Published Paul Hunt (Founder of the Disability Rights Movement UK) with him so cogently and sagaciously writing about the Social Model Of Disability – and the Anti Social and Discriminatory Views of so many others. People like @JillFilipovic. Little Jilly rants on about consent and how it’s created in her own image – and the disabled also campaign of consent issues “Nothing About Us Without Us”. If Silly Jilly was so concerned about rape and other issues, maybe she would be asking questions such as “Are Rape Services Disability Accessible”? Do the police provide eduction classes on personal safety including rape to Disabled People in venues where Disabled People can be found? Why is there such a large risk of sexual assault including rape when disavbed people are targeted – or is Silly Jilly too frightened to look at that issue due to Sex imbalance with so many Perps being female?

    Maybe if Little Jilly and her terminal crippling Bloggerhea stopped for a few minutes and looked at issues rather than her incessant knee jerkin, she may be able to see why saying It’s OK to rape a narcoleptic makes her Rape Luvin Scum.

    I wonder if Little Silly Jilly would have the Gaul to make such comments in front of a group of disability activists, or would she fear being ripped limb from limb as they correct her highly aberrant mind set? Or, maybe they will just recognise how Impaired she is, and make sure she knows how to access services aimed at her level and ability, and then amke sure she gets home safe.

    As for GMP, the sooner they have editors who edit for the site and not as a place to navel gaze on personal foci, issues and public masturbation in their favoured personal issues, it may be possible for there to be content about what men think of good men, rather than the content often looking like a scold’s bridle and a 1950’s advert for Lady Magazine (The Bumper All Colour Nostalgia Edition).

  5. @stonerwithaboner – You ask “Would Amanda Marcotte made the same comments?” – well yes and no. She did decide without any reference to reality that the Guy must be a fraudulent gas-lighter and abuser, making it all up, and tending to the deep end of the Psychopathic spectrum … but then, why deal with reality when you have a blog and use it as a mirror to expand your own intellectual vanity?

    AmandaGone and her site PanadaGone are so last year and damaged by the Schwyzwer-gate scandal, at least the Marcotte seeing the writing on the wall and the net had the good sense to run and hide – or rather preserve her own neck. She’s had to duck out of politics – now she’s ducked out of gender and feminism – what is her latest business venture to make a buck – honest or otherwise and where is she ducking now!

    And of course we need to be charitable to Silly Jilly, given that it is approaching the First Anniversary of Hugo’s felling as a Monolith of feminist idolatry. He built himself up so high and had such adoring followers. I think of it a bit like North Korea, and what it would be like if there had been no Totalitarian heir.

    Jilly was just about Hugo’s greatest acolyte and a High priestess of the Hugo Cult. The aftermath of Cult Collapses are never nice, and the Psychological dysfunction that kept people wedded to the cult takes time to resolve. Hugo was SO happy that Silly Jilly was acting as a Human Shield and he even said so publicly … and then melted away leaving so many looking foolish and damaged. Poor lamb – it is so hard to keep reality in order and working out who is rapin who when you are still trapped in a cult mindset and the anniversary of your liberation is upon you. The three most stressful things in life – Divorce – Moving House – Finding out you is in a cult and can’t even fight your way out of a paper bag.

    In the past when there has been Jill-bashing (Or rather correction of unreal outlook and distorted world view) – Hugo has been there to provide both support and to capitalise upon it and blog his little self serving socks off, making himself look so good. He’s even attempted to divert attention by making it all about class – and now sadly there is Jilly all alone in a class of her own. She will have to move on up from the little league when she’s ready.

    This is the first time Jilly has had to deal with reality alone. She misses her friends, and she is having such difficulty making new ones – it’s so hard making that transition up to the big school room and getting used to adult things like desks, chairs and how to write in a rational manner.

    WE should be charitable, shouldn’t we?

  6. My main thought about that whole incident was:
    Pot. Meet Kettle.
    Also didn’t feministe have Hugo Schwayer interviewed? The guy who defended someone who sexually assaulted a child? And is an attempted murderer? And doesn’t Jezebel still have him do occasional articles?

  7. I’ll just say that:
    If Mens Rea counts, this hypothetical person isn’t a rapist, but it was an accidental rape.
    By saying this person isn’t a rapist I mean that not only wouldn’t the legal system (if working correctly and taking Mens Rea into account) not convict this person of rape, but I’m also saying this woman doesn’t have the mind of a rapist. She thought he was consenting(because of overt actions and events in the past); consent is important to her.

    That being said, if all facts are true, this was an accidental rape. Which proves they are possible; something feminists claim Simpy Cannot Be.

  8. If Mens Rea counts, this hypothetical person isn’t a rapist, but it was an accidental rape.

    I agree, however, I think that would also apply to the man from Royse’s article on GMP. From the little information we have, there is no indication he intended to rape the sleeping woman or that he thought his action was unwanted. Legally that does not spare him. Some states remove the idea of mens rea from the statute, so he could in theory be charged with a felony even if he did not intend to commit rape. That happens to a number of people charged with statutory rape in which the victim lied about their age.

    Coincidentally, Jill rejected the idea of an accidental rapist in her article about the Savage column, so she completely contradicts herself when she defines this case as accidental but Royse’s example.

  9. @Toysoldier – @JillFilipovic contradicts herself all the time – and I’m sorry, but when she starts using disability of a rape victim to excuse a female rapist, Mens Rea counts for nothing. She is a gross rape excuser and apologist and has some massive discrimination issues to address – especially her negative views of disability. She has shown herself to be a narrow minded abelist bigot!

    It’s funny too how she objects so much to people using social media and providing links – TO ARCHIVED COPY!

  10. @Toysoldier – @JillFilipovic contradicts herself all the time – and I’m sorry, but when she starts using disability of a rape victim to excuse a female rapist, Mens Rea counts for nothing.

    I had not checked my Twitter feed, so when I followed your archive I saw her responses. Of course, like anyone who makes a complete ass of themselves, she blocked me from her feed, so I had to read other people’s feeds to find out what she actually wrote. After reading her rape apologist “It’s not rape if the guy has a sleep disorder”, I returned the favor. That kind of thing is the reason why so many male and female survivors do not come forward. When you rationalize why someone’s rape does not count, and them victim-blame them for taking issue with that, you show yourself to be a fool and an enabler, and that makes you far more dangerous.

  11. When you rationalize why someone’s rape does not count, and them victim-blame them for taking issue with that, you show yourself to be a fool and an enabler, and that makes you far more dangerous.

    Well Silly Jilly has a few other issues – cos when she starts dismissing rape and abuse by dismissing disability – here in the UK such things as Hate Crime are legal issues. If she was a pro in the field she would now be at home awaiting formal investigation and quite possibly had better offer a letter of resignation as best option. It wouldn’t stop the investigation, but it may – just may – mitigate the very bad references that would follow, and many – just may allow for future employment as anything other than a burger slinger.

    I have been chatting with some of my Crip associates, and a few legal eagles. They are Horrified by the attitude and words. A number have been staggered to find that she writes for The Guardian, and has for over three years. It seems that some rather stiff letters to Editors are being written and Ms Silly Jilly’s back catalogue is now being studied in great detail to see exactly what tune she has been singing! However, given that the Guardian has so frequently acted as a Clarion to raise abuse and negation of the disabled for some 40 years, extensive excavation may well not be required!

    As one observed after the most cursory of assessments “She does tend to use very negative language about men, even when it really is not required.”. I do love Barrister Understatement.

    Have to give Polly T a call – It’s great when people owe you favours!

  12. That’s quite an attempt to explain away rape. I wonder if she is willing to accept mens rea with female victims, male perps?

  13. @Archy – #SillyJilly won’t accept responsibility for her own mindset so she’s not capable of considering mens rea for anyone else – she judges by genitals and who’s on top – who has control – who has who by the agenda.

    She does not even consider Mens Rea, because to do so requires the person to comprehend guilt and have it as part of their personal psychology.

    Have you seen her over at The Guardian? It’s really creepy, Sort of like Sandusky with his autobiography titled “Touched” (Que the Theme To The Twilight Zone). Some people do love to hide in plain sight and get one hell of a kick out of it, especially leaving read crumbs to lead people on but leaving then without enough to call it all out.

    When you look at Jilly land and Jilly planet there she is “Jill Filipovic on Gender And Other Agendas”.

    Sorry Which Other Agendas are those?

    It’s very interesting to see just how “racist” Jill Filipovic is and how she gets caught out by her own racism. She’s writing for a UK based News paper – She makes it all about an attack upon a USA based group called the Good Men Project – and she even uses links to places that are likely to cause Knee jerks in Americans … but which are a total fail for UK readers.

    I loved the link to the Southern Poverty Law Centre and the attempted implication that GMP should be shifted in focus to be a Hate Group. Oh now that was a master stroke, but the chain jerking and puppet string pulling only works on a US Audience. See what I mean about her racist mindset. She doesn’t care two hoots for Guardian Readers in the UK – it;s just a stage for her to play upon and make her puppets dance as she pulls verbal and rhetorical strings.

    When you stop worshipping at the high and might alter of #SillyJilly and look at how she tries to yank people’s chains and make them dance her way as puppets … It’s nasty!

    What’s more amazing is when you look at her history on-line, not just at The Guardian, you keep seeing the same tactic over and over against anyone she disagrees. 1=accident, 2=coincidence, 3+ = ?????

    No wonder Alyssa Royce has been driven into Cyber Hibernation with people like #SillyJilly aiming her minions and puppets at others .. and by any means .. even whilst manifesting her own flavour of #SillyJilly racism.

  14. Media, I do not think what Jill has done is racism, although it is certainly hypocrisy. She appears to believe that in certain circumstances people can “accidentally” rape someone while claiming no such thing can ever happen. She also appears to believe that anyone rationalizing rape or excusing it is a rape apologist, but she clearly excludes herself from that group.

  15. @Toysoldier – well If her failure to grasp racial differences and her wrong headedness is not due to her using her own racial tropes and ignoring others … and can’t be called racism.. maybe it’s proof of her and privilege based upon her US Status.

    American privilege – Is it am emergent trope that needs to be put in the text books, or does it get denied because The Patriarchy missed out the USA when it decided what it was for and against?

  16. @ Archy – here you go “Why the ‘nice guys commit rape too’ conversation is not helpful” – It looks like WebCite is being attacked again. Funny how people hate web content being backed up and quotable as it was …a and even as it gets changed over time.

    I’ve run that page past quite a few folks now, and all of them hone in on the Hyperlks to Southern Poverty law centre and how that sits against others like GMP and Alyssa Royse.

    It’s also been mentioned that SillyJilly has degrees in Politics as well as gender/sexuality, so she has a good working knowledge of Machiavellian ways (The Prince Published 1532 Is a Basic Text) coupled with how abusers work and operate in and around sex/gender. It fits with how she writes and operates too. Only one word comes to mind. Nasty!

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