A Dose of Stupid v.56

It happens every day. In fact, it is pretty hard to avoid it. There are some things that can only be understood with a slap on the forehead. Things so mind-boggling that one wonders how humans managed to evolve thumbs while being this mentally inept. Case in point:

Stupid is as stupid does

Some men’s rights activists took offense to the feminist twitterfeed called #mencallmethings. Sady Doyle created the feed to list the various insults she receives. Other feminists have joined in. This has been a big deal on feminist blogs because apparently they are awash in nothing but insults. As is typical, those feminists were very quick to claim men never receive any insults, which turned to men rarely receive insults, which turned to men never receive insults based on their sex, which turned to men receive far fewer sex-based insults than women. Granted, few of the people claiming this are men or men’s rights activists, but why deal with details when you can mock men’s rights activists for listing the insults feminists hurl at them?

David Futrelle decided to do just that. In a recent post, he listed the complaints that one men’s rights activist compiled:

 “Stop whining!”

“Suck it up like a man!”

“You need to get over your anger at women.”

“You’re afraid of a strong woman!”

“You are so immature!”

“You are just bitter because you can’t get laid.”

“Are you gay?”

“That’s a sexist stereotype!”

“You need therapy.”

“You make me feel afraid.”

“Weirdo!”

“Loser!”

“You are so materialistic.”

“No woman will marry you with that attitude.”

“You are insensitive to the plight of women.”

Futrelle then listed Sady Doyle’s compilation:

Slut, cunt, bitch, whore, ugly, dyke, lesbo, unfuckable, crazy, delusional, liar, hysterical, autistic bitch child, feminazi, ballbuster, humorless, heartless whore, man hater, misandrist, stupid little girl, shrieky hysterical moron, airhead, spoiled little princess, stupid bitch, stupid fucking cunt, stupid feminazi cunt, an ugly bitter little woman, cumm guzzling closet lesbian, a pseudo-intellectual Insane Oversensitive Humourless Female supremacist.

Two points. One, I am sure that as a feminist Futrelle does not have a problem with feminists calling men they disagree with rapists, gay, dangerous, unmanly, whiners, babies, delusional, liar, hysterical, creepy, misogynists, or bitter. However, the two lists are not really that different, which leads to point number two: Futrelle edited the men’s rights list.

On the site, the author lists a series of categories and includes various insults under them. Futrelle conveniently left out insults like:

“You’re just afraid of losing your male privileges.”

“Your fragile male ego …”

“You sound like the KKK.”

“I need a real man, not a sissy.”

“You misogynist creep!”

“I bet you are fat and ugly.”

The list is rather long and it is understandable for someone to shorten it, but seems Futrelle only listed the insults he thinks are harmless. That is rather… dishonest.

But, yeah, somehow it’s a little hard for me to feel a ton of sympathy for MRAs who so regularly work themselves into a lather over “shaming language” like “creep” and “loser” and “you are insensitive to the plight of women.”

Yes, I suppose it is much easier to him to feel a ton of sympathy for feminists who so regularly work themselves into a lather over “shaming language” they ironically dish out themselves, such as calling a male survivor a liar and asshole for talking about his abuse,  on Futrelle’s own site.

Stupid is as stupid does indeed.

35 thoughts on “A Dose of Stupid v.56

  1. I tried participating in this #mencallmethings discussion by pointing out that as a feminist blogger, I have been on the receiving end of so many insults, bullying, cyberstalking and outright threats to myself and my family that were delivered by women that I’m not convinced the phenomenon of exclusive male bullying of female bloggers even exists. Nobody was interested in my experience, of course, because it goes against the perception of women as perennial victims of men that so many pseudo-feminists enjoy.

    In my experience as a blogger, there is absolutely no correlation between the gender of a cyber-bully or cyber-stalker and the viciousness of their attacks. I’m a feminist blogger and a very direct and straightforward one. Which has made me persecuted by female trolls and bullies. But the idea of women as aggressors is still so hard for many people to swallow that nobody wants to hear about this.

  2. Clarissa, that is a good point. I wonder how many insults from women or other feminists get hurled at people like Michelle Bernard or Christina Hoff Sommers.

  3. “I am sure that as a feminist Futrelle does not have a problem with feminists calling men they disagree with rapists, gay, dangerous, unmanly, whiners, babies, delusional, liar, hysterical, creepy, misogynists, or bitter.”

    You may be “sure” that this is true, but it isn’t. If someone lies, I’ll call them a liar. If someone hates women, I will call them a misogynist. Etc etc.

    I will call YOU a liar right now for saying that commenters on my site called you “a liar and asshole for talking about [your] abuse.” In fact, numerous people offered sympathy for you as an abuse victim. Every victim of abuse,regardless of gender, and regardless of the gender of the abuser, deserves sympathy.

    People called you a liar and an asshole only after you repeatedly misrepresented them and lied about other things — as you are doing here.

    I am sorry that you were abused. But that does not render you immune to criticism for your behavior.

  4. Clarissa: But the idea of women as aggressors is still so hard for many people to swallow that nobody wants to hear about this.

    Consider the concept of “violence against women.” It doesn’t include women who are attacked and killed by other women. Such victims don’t provide useful fodder for feminist activism, so they don’t really count.

    So when the choice comes down to helping female victims or upholding feminist ideology by ignoring a certain class of female victims, too many feminists choose the latter time and time again.

  5. Two points. One, I am sure that as a feminist Futrelle does not have a problem with feminists calling men they disagree with rapists, gay, dangerous, unmanly, whiners, babies, delusional, liar, hysterical, creepy, misogynists, or bitter. However, the two lists are not really that different, which leads to point number two:

    Futrelle edited the men’s rights list.
    On the site, the author lists a series of categories and includes various insults under them. Futrelle conveniently left out insults like:

    Which is odd. If the misogyny pointed at feminists is so bad then why try to downplay the things MRAs are called in order to make it sound worse?

    Come on Futrelle while I don’t care much for what you do ever there I at least had some respect for you because you do point out real misogyny among MRAs but lying like this?

    Shame, shame, shame…

  6. You may be “sure” that this is true, but it isn’t.

    Yes, it is. The men’s rights author listed a number of insults feminists directed at him or other men, to which you replied:

     But, yeah, somehow it’s a little hard for me to feel a ton of sympathy for MRAs who so regularly work themselves into a lather over “shaming language” like “creep” and “loser” and “you are insensitive to the plight of women.”

    That does not sound like you have a problem with feminists insulting men. It sounds like you do not care at all. And that is fine. You do not have to care. But it is rather contradictory to pitch a fit over men doing something you have no problem with feminists doing.

    If someone lies, I’ll call them a liar. If someone hates women, I will call them a misogynist. Etc etc.

    So you have written posts about people who hate men and called them misandrists?

    I will call YOU a liar right now for saying that commenters on my site called you “a liar and asshole for talking about [your] abuse.” In fact, numerous people offered sympathy for you as an abuse victim.

    And several of those people later called me a liar or used my experiences to attack me and try to discredit my argument.

    People called you a liar and an asshole only after you repeatedly misrepresented them and lied about other things — as you are doing here.

    No, they actually called me a liar shortly after you posted the link back to my post. The insult was out of context, with Bostonian stating, “Toysoldier is a liar and a coward as well. I would be shocked, but he is an MRA apologist, so it fits with the rest of his garbage philosophy.” Kollege Messerschmitt stated, “Ugh, reading Toysoldiers entry, I think I probably cut him too much slack, especially since he links to the False Rape Society blog. Liar and coward indeed.” Bostonian responded to Kollege, stating that I go to other sites arguing in bad faith and derailing discussions about rape and that I “celebrate hate and rejoices in the rape and abuse of women, because he claims he was abused by a woman. ” At that point, the only person who accused me of misrepresenting anything was you, and only in reference to my blog post, not anything I wrote on your thread.

    The asshole insults came because I refused to back down from saying that feminism influenced my aunt’s behavior and challenged those who insulted me.

    Calling you on your sexist double standard by quoting you directly is not lying. I can understand how you might confuse it as such since you so often quote people out of context, but I assure you it is not. However, if you think I lied about you, point it out where I did so.

    I am sorry that you were abused.

    Given your above dishonest behavior, why should I believe you?

    But that does not render you immune to criticism for your behavior.

    If you find it “a little hard for me to feel a ton of sympathy” for men when feminists accusing them of lying about their abuse, comparing them to the Klu Klux Klan or accusing men who disagree with them of being rapists, sissies or whiners, you are more than welcome to. I understand that you are not used to people actually criticizing your opinions, but just because you do not like it does not make you immune to criticism for your clear double standard.

  7. TS: But it is rather contradictory to pitch a fit over men doing something you have no problem with feminists doing.

    C’mon TS! If he’s going to get the pat on the head from feminists that he so badly needs, Futrelle’s gotta do what he’s gotta do! Right?

  8. David Futrelle said:

    “People called you a liar and an asshole only after you repeatedly misrepresented them and lied about other things — as you are doing here.”

    Did ToySoldier really misrepresent and lie about you, Mr. Futrelle? Such behavior would be appalling. I hope you don’t mind me asking, but would you happen to have experience in that field?

  9. Toysoldier, you’re lying again. Bostonian didn’t call you a liar out of the blue or “out of context.”. Nor did any of the other commenters. You seem to imply here that you weren’t part of the discussion until I linked back to your blog, and that people just jumped up and started calling you names.

    In fact, as anyone who wants to go back and check can see, you were part of the discussion in that thread for a long time before I posted the link back to your site, and the post of yours I linked to actually misrepresented that discussion.

    I’m not even going to bother with the rest. It’s impossible to discuss anything rationally with someone as fundamentally dishonest as you are.

  10. Toysoldier, you’re lying again. Bostonian didn’t call you a liar out of the blue or “out of context.”. Nor did any of the other commenters.

    And what is the context to “[Toysoldier] celebrates hate and rejoices in the rape and abuse of women, because he claims he was abused by a woman.
    He is nothing but a liar and a coward”? Do you think that is a fair thing to say to a victim of sexual abuse? Understand, I am not offended. I only want to clarify whether you actually think Bostonian’s comment is a fair thing to say to someone talking about their abuse.

    You seem to imply here that you weren’t part of the discussion until I linked back to your blog, and that people just jumped up and started calling you names.

    No, that is just you attempting to make this about me rather your clear double standard. Let us put it back on topic: do you think it is wrong for commenters on your blog to call a male survivor a liar for mentioning his abuse? Do you think it is wrong for feminists like Hugo Schwyzer to compare men’s rights activists to the KKK? Do you think it is wrong for feminists to call men rapists, question their sexuality or masculinity, or call them whiners, babies, assholes or wusses when they question feminist positions? Those are the insults feminists hurl at men, and you appear to condone them even though when the same insults are hurled at feminists you object.

    I’m not even going to bother with the rest. It’s impossible to discuss anything rationally with someone as fundamentally dishonest as you are.

    Says the guy who, when asked to point out said dishonesty, tries to change the subject and when does not work turns tail and runs. If you cannot own up to your own positions, do not be so quick to call others liars or dishonest.

  11. Uh, no, I did call him an asshole. Or a person living in an asshole moment. Prior to that I said politely that neither prior trauma nor PTSD excused him from the rules of common courtesy, then after many, many, MANY go rounds told him that he was acting like an asshole. TS, you were rude as fuck to me and to a lot of other people on manboobz.

  12. KathleenB, I was quite polite to you and the other feminists despite your insults, particularly the one about me lacking basic human decency. However, your comment shows part of the problem with the #mencallmethings concept. Feminists give as good as they get. You and the others on manboobz spent about 20 pages insulting me. If I took any of those comments and flipped the sex, feminists would lose their minds. Yet none of you see what you did, or how other feminists treat men, as wrong.

  13. I think I speak for all the feminists here when I say the following:

    Women should be free to insult men with the most horrible and disgusting language they can possibly muster because men are made of stronger, sterner stuff and can easily withstand it.

    Meanwhile, women are delicate, easily-hurt flowers who are way too weak to withstand the force of harsh words. Simultaneously, they’re capable of being DEA agents and front-line combat troops because they’re as tough as nails.

    Feminist logic, for the win!

  14. Lol, the title did not lie… this post was a dose of stupid. Most honest thing Toysoldier’s said in ages. 😀

  15. Lol, the title did not lie… this post was a dose of stupid. Most honest thing Toysoldier’s said in ages.

    Unfortunately, the post was about people like you, so you technically just called yourself stupid.

  16. Look at Futrelle’s little sock puppets. Exactly what you would expect given what he has created. Futrelle has nothing positive to contribute to the world so he does the only thing left to him. He tries to damage that which others do. He fits the definition of “vandal” to a tee.

    It’s very easy to mock and disparage others particularly when you are already determined to impute motivations to those others AND are willing to distort even those. The resulting circle jerks are as predictable as the sun rising in the AM as they all reach for cleverer ways of being insulting.

    I did bother to engage once. I was interested to see how much truth they could handle before somebody accused me of lying. To their credit it took a little longer than I’d anticipated – but not by much.

  17. Well, that’s an interesting tactic, gwallan… simply deny the humanity of people who disagree with you. Do I now have to prove that I’m an autonomous human being before I get heard here?

  18. @ toysoldier

    I attempted to get through that thread at futelle’s site. Um. Wow. They do know that hot boiled potatoes disintegrate and that being thrown through the air cools them, right? So this would amount to throwing handfulls of mashed potatoes at someone.

    Jeezus. I’m sorry I couldn’t get to the part where they said those things to you but I wouldn’t be surprised.

  19. I attempted to get through that thread at futelle’s site. Um. Wow. They do know that hot boiled potatoes disintegrate and that being thrown through the air cools them, right? So this would amount to throwing handfulls of mashed potatoes at someone.

    No, I doubt they did. It much more fun to be upset about an improbably fantasy than actually think about what would happen if someone actually tried to shoot boiled potatoes at someone.

    Jeezus. I’m sorry I couldn’t get to the part where they said those things to you but I wouldn’t be surprised.

    It is an effort to read those comments. Fortunately years of talk news helped build a tolerance to that kind of inanity.

  20. Thankyou TS. And thankyou for creating an environment that does have a positive, constructive intent. It’s more than can be said for some.

    I’m actually very lucky to be in a part of the world where the sexual assault services are genuinely inclusive. I’ve got the chance to be involved in spreading this beyond my own state to the rest of Australia. If it’s a choice between that and subjecting myself to the negativity of Futrelle’s hoard I think I know damned well where I’ll be.

    I had my brief paddle and noted there were a few too many sharks. Not worth it, don’t need the negativity. Ultimately it’s an environment that is a magnet for folk of a more DEstructive than CONstructive bent. If left alone sooner or later they’ll start eating their own.

  21. Ah. So if two people express similar opinions, one must be a sockpuppet. Got it.

    Btw, gwallan, I just came from reading the thread at Manboobz which you were posting in. Where are the insults and negativity directed at you? Other commenters disagreed with some of the things you said, yes, but I saw no insults.

  22. mediumdave…

    I don’t believe I mentioned insults. I am not revisiting the thread no matter how much you would like me to re-enter that web. I left at the first sign I was being assumed a liar. I have better things to do.

  23. Ah. So if two people express similar opinions, one must be a sockpuppet. Got it.

    Not quite, mediumdave, as it seems that that depends upon with whom you hold the similar opinion that’s being expressed. For example, if you and I express similar opinions that are not completely in accord with the similar opinions of gwallan and Toysoldier, then it is you and I who are the sockpuppets, whereas gwallan and Toysoldier are the independent thinkers who just happen to have come to the same conclusion.
    Also, not being 100% in accord with someone, hyperbole and all, means that you’re assuming them a liar.

  24. Actually gwallan and Toysoldier are not at all “independant” thinkers. They are both of like mind when it comes to identifying stupidity. It’s made all the more easy when they all congregate in the one place.

    Now let’s see…

    gwallan and Toysoldier have between them decades of support for victims of rape and sexual assault. Futrelle and his mob spend their time vandalising the work of others.

    Gee, Pam, what a tough choice.

  25. “Slut, cunt, bitch, whore, ugly, dyke, lesbo, unfuckable, crazy, delusional, liar, hysterical, autistic bitch child, feminazi, ballbuster, humorless, heartless whore, man hater, misandrist, stupid little girl, shrieky hysterical moron, airhead, spoiled little princess, stupid bitch, stupid fucking cunt, stupid feminazi cunt, an ugly bitter little woman, cumm guzzling closet lesbian, a pseudo-intellectual Insane Oversensitive Humourless Female supremacist.”

    This is David Furtelle describing himself quite accurately.

    Personal attacks are not allowed on this site – TS

  26. “Personal attacks are not allowed on this site – TS”

    It is rather unusual that you would bother with him at all as he, his site, and his readership base their very existence on personal attacks.

  27. Betaproton, normally I would not care about it. However, because so many feminists link to his site, he has a broader impact. One of the ways feminists try to discredit men’s issues is by citing sites like Manboobz. So it makes sense to call his nonsense for what it is.

  28. @ bloggerclarissa

    I tried participating in this #mencallmethings discussion by pointing out that as a feminist blogger, I have been on the receiving end of so many insults, bullying, cyberstalking and outright threats to myself and my family that were delivered by women that I’m not convinced the phenomenon of exclusive male bullying of female bloggers even exists.

    But the idea of women as aggressors is still so hard for many people to swallow that nobody wants to hear about this

    I have always found the #mencallmethings meme disturbing due to my own experiences on line – in running and managing sites – and dealing with contentious issues such as Disability Hate Crime – Disability Activism – Disability Right – Gay Rights – Homophobia – and Child Abuse, including Child Sexual abuse.

    There has been some “Very” nasty activity – and have had to call in Police and even obtain restraining orders – and on each occasion the perps have been Women 100%. … and that covers 15+ years. Cyber stalking and harassment is recognised as a female perp crime.

    The last occasion involved multi venue harassment and threats across multiple social networking sites – including threats of “Immolation” and deliveries to my home address which had been obtained by deception. When it was confirmed that the perp was issuing death threats and had my address the police jumped.

    The lady turned out to be very “well to do” and a supposed angel – her computer said otherwise, as did her ISP. She was not happy with being charged for Harassment and Stalking because she did not like Disabled People having legal rights, and knowing how to use them. She was furious at having a criminal record – and even asked the judge, batting her eye lashes and being ever so childlike, if he believed she was capable of the nasty things she was accused of? The Judge said yes – the evidence was very clear. Even after a none harassment order was in place and she had been convicted, she attempted secondary activity and further harassment under other identities using publicly accessible computers/net cafes etc. Malice and premeditation were defining factors.

    On each occasion police have investigated they have also identified that the female perp was involved in multiple cases of harassment against multiple targets both men and women at the same time. Common factors “Perceived Vulnerability + Ability to project power via net + belief that they were safe from recourse and legal sanction + malice due to personal views and beliefs”. Proper management with involvement of service providers and police has been hard and time consuming.

    I think the hash tag should read #FemalesCyberStalkCallPolice

    Whilst it’s not definitive, I have had to support other people through similar experiences and trauma. The vast majority, over 80%, of perps have been female. The “Worst” offenders have been female. There is an incorrect focus within online references that link the abuse with domestic abuse/violence against female spouses/partners by males. These misleading references often confuse Law Enforcement who dismiss matters and fail to act promptly. If a male reports events he is advised to stop using the internet. If a female reports police will all too often dismiss matters as it is not recognised as Domestic Violence/Abuse by spouse/partner. Police often refuse to take initial reports as serious and do not log incidents.

    The only places where the activity is taken seriously is in the work-place, when it’s employee against employee, and within educational establishments and where the behaviour is manifested only over internal systems, and not achieved via other venues such as Social Networking and public forums. This is known, and Modus Operadi has been shifted accordingly.

    E-mail is not a preferred weapon as it can be readily traced to the source machine.

  29. Pingback: A Dose of Stupid v94 | Toy Soldiers

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