This Is What It Looks Like v4

Few things annoy me as much as disingenuousness. I could care less whether someone holds an opinion I disagree with. However, I do not like when people pretend to care about a problem or person just for the sake of appearances. I particularly do not like when people feign concern as a pretense to attack, insult, or dismiss someone else.

Yet many feminists do just that. They say they support and sympathize with male survivors, and in the next breath they attack those men, often using those men’s own stories as their weapon of choice. It is an insidious thing to do, and it is rarely done by accident. The intent is usually to unhinge the man while forcing him to disprove whatever negative assertions that were made against him. And this often works because many abuse survivors are emotionally raw and it takes very little to upset them.

I recently experienced this. Several days ago on Manboobz, a poster claimed that men’s rights activists do not really care about male victims. She claimed that the activists instead respond to them by saying, “Wow, the fact that you’re hurting is so offensive to me! why can’t you raped men stop and think abot the incels? what about my feelings?!!”

When I responded no men’s rights activist ever treated me that way and that the only people who have are usually feminists, Kyrie replied with:

I don’t know who you’re talking about, but if that happened here you definitely need to show us the comments. Which I don’t think will happen.

Except it did. About an hour later Ponkz wrote this about me:

I was sexually abused and raped as a child during the ages 8-10. It is only in recent years that I’ve started to talk about it and feel better about myself. I’ve suffered on and off with depression over the years and used to self-harm. I’m now in a place in my life where I’m a lot happier about myself and so feel more confident about speaking about it.

I say this because honestly TS makes me really angry. I really feel for him and the abuse he’s suffered, as I would any abuse victim I encountered. But the fact that he seems to completely disregard female victims – unless their abuser was female – in the name of his own personal vendetta against women in general and feminists in particular is disappointing at best and infuriating/ offensive at worst.

Hey, TS! I was raped too! By A MAN!!! I realise he was a bad man, so note that I’m not angry at men in general as a result of this! You cannot erase me or my experience, no matter how hard you try!

I’m a survivor too and honestly I have open arms for any fellow survivor no matter their who they are. But if my experience, what I went through, means fuck all to you because I’m female? In all seriousness, fuck you.

That was not the first time feminists on Manboobz used my past to attack me. However, it  was the first time that someone there did so under the pretense of sympathy.

If one actually sympathizes with a person, one would not in the next breath attack that person. If Ponkz sympathizes with me and my concern for male victims, particularly those abused by women, she would not have immediately attacked me for focusing on those issues.

I chose to ignore Ponkz statement, as that is the best way to fend off this kind of attack. The way the attack works is by getting the man to defend himself against an unfair charge so the feminist can pull the “why are you so defensive” routine. Instead I responded to Kyrie, stating, “Kyrie, you said that a feminist saying, ‘wow, the fact that you’re hurting is so offensive to me! what about my feelings?!’ would never happen on this blog. It did, just about an hour after your post.”

However that upset Ponkz:

The one thing that I have been lead to believe abuse victims face is the fear of accusations of being a liar, an attention seeker, making things up, etc. It’s definitely something I suffered from and still do, hence why it’s only in the last couple of years, since the age of 28, I’ve started to talk about what happened to me to my close friends and I still find myself slightly bracing for impact if I tell anyone about it, waiting for the accusations.

To have another abuse victim, someone who I naively thought would understand such feelings, use that against me and essentially accuse me of being all “What about my feelings?” and selfish despite the fact I had explicitly expressed sympathy for him, is really upsetting beyond words and I will now probably think twice before disclosing what happened to me to anyone else in future.

I also note you didn’t address me directly, TS, but whined to David about my post as if you expect me to be banned or silenced or something. I think that’s pretty cowardly.

This is what it looks like when feminists say they sympathize with male survivors. While some of them do actually care about abused men and boys, many just say they do. When called out on an insensitive or dismissive comment they made, those feminists drop their false pretense and go for the jugular.

Ponkz showed no real concern for me, my experiences, or my feelings. She makes no attempt to fix the situation by explaining how I misinterpreted her comments. Instead, she shifted the blame to me while talking about me to the other feminist posters. So I responded with:

Ponkz, you did not express sympathy. You attacked me personally and used my past to start it. I am quite used to feminists doing that, particularly when I write or say something they disagree with, so I am not offended, bothered, or surprised by your comments. However, just because I am not bothered by it does not mean I will tolerate it.

Since you stated that you are just starting to talk about your abuse, I assume you have not spoken to many abuse victims. Please allow me to offer some advice: before you say or write anything to abuse victim, ask how you would feel if that comment were directed at you. For instance, how would you feel if someone wrote your comments to me to you?

I did not “whine” to Manboobz. I responded to Kyrie’s comment that no feminist on this blog would ever write anything close to “Wow, the fact that you’re hurting is so offensive to me! what about my feelings?”, which you unfortunately did. I understand that you do not think you did that, however, having been on the receiving end of comments like that from feminists for almost a decade, I do not believe I am mistaken. To this point, if I were mistaken, I think you would have clarified your intent rather than claiming I called you selfish, saying that you will “think twice before disclosing,” or saying that you thought you could “speak some sense to” me.

You mentioned that you thought “abuse victims would look out for and listen to one another and it’s disappointing to see how apparently wrong I am.” I am disappointed that you never thought to apply that to yourself. Again, I hope that you will think about what you write to abuse victims before you write it and ask how you would feel is someone directed that at you.

And if you are in need of support or someone to talk to, might I suggest contacting RAINN. They have a list of local organizations that help female victims, and they may be able to help you find a support group or therapist in your area.

After years of fending off emotionally manipulative comments like Ponkz’s, those comments no longer bother me. However, it does bother me that they are so common. It bothers me that people who claim to sympathize with male survivors would attack them for focusing on male survivor issues. It bothers me that they would use a male survivor’s experience to attack him or as a caveat to an attack. And it bothers me that some feminists like Ponkz try to use their experiences of abuse as means of justifying those attacks.

I know it is bizarre and stupid to expect any amount of civility and decency online, however, one would think that someone genuinely concerned about another person would not behave in such an manner.

There is nothing male survivors can do to prevent this sort of thing. Eventually it is going to happen. That said, I think civility is the best response, no matter how tempting it is to return the favor, because it reveals who actually cares and who could not care less.

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17 thoughts on “This Is What It Looks Like v4

  1. You did the right thing. Unfortunately, people like her really don’t care what happens to others – not unless it personally affects them.

  2. Mainstream feminism teaches both female victims and non victims to stay victims so they can fight rape culture. They put aside human feelings such as empathy, love, compassion, etc to push that agenda and feel justified because “they are the victims of men and rape is just a tool to control women”. The opposite is the truth however. There is no rape culture but a small minority of sick individuals who commit the atrocity. To advance their ideology many mainstream feminists consider many forms of college sex (drunken sex (both parties were too drunk to consent), implied sex (no word of mouth was given but both parties consented in their actions), and regrettable sex (consensual but drunk and woke up with a 2) “rape of the woman”. This brings about misleading stats and doesn’t help true rape victims in the slightest.

    I feel really sad someone has to go through rape but I feel sadder for those who didn’t learn and gain compassion from their experience but turn bitter, hostile, and often tribal(rape is a gendered crime because it happens to “us” more, man vs women instead of each individual is of value)

  3. “But the fact that he seems to completely disregard female victims – unless their abuser was female – in the name of his own personal vendetta against women in general and feminists in particular is disappointing at best and infuriating/ offensive at worst.”

    You mean TS, in your estimation, does exactly what mainstream rape advocates do to the unacceptable victims of sexual assault?

    How? Does TS say that women and girls raped by men don’t exist, are irrelevant, are a tiny minority, don’t require services, shouldn’t have awareness raised about their issues?

  4. What you are describing, TS, is a kind of emotional predation. Ponkz behavior is all about projecting power.

  5. The US engages in the torture of political prisoners and indulges in capital punishment. Every US citizen is responsible. An entire nation of torturers and killers.

    Same logic. Guilt by association.

  6. Having had a look through the thread concerned it’s clear nothing has changed in that place.

    I wonder how long this “CassandraSays” individual has been a male survivor interacting with mens’ right activists. It seems to assume it knows all about it.

    It’s quite clear that ANY male survivor who speaks without first pledging fealty to feminism will be attacked by these cowards. Any suggestion that any one of them really gives a toss about those victims is absolutely laughable.

    Clearly, TS, you haven’t bowed and scraped or tugged your forelock sufficiently to the great goddess.

  7. When your blog is expressly about “For the forgotten men and boys who suffer in silence”, it’s frustrating and kind of telling when someone says “he seems to completely disregard female victims”.

    I figure he’s a climate change denier since he NEVER talks about that…

    But again, that is how this emotional wound feels/works… Unless you’re listening respectfully to my painful story, you’re denying I exist, you hate me, you’re trying to silence me!

  8. Gwallan, I think what actually bugs them is that I am unapologetic about talking about my experiences or criticizing feminism. They cannot seem to find a way to get under my skin, so they flail around whatever they can hoping something will land.

  9. TS – You are aware that I’m a stickler for checking things out – and little passes by my beady, eagle eye, so there a few issues that need to be addressed and “Corrections” made.

    it is a fascinating and on point analysis and referenced as usual – and I have checked each one to make sure too! P^) …. even the one’s without direct links!

    I have just one point that I would like clarified. You keep saying that Ponkz is a feminist – but I have not been able to trace a reference where that is said by Ponkz.

    It is interesting that responses to your on point points were met with such interesting responses – and not an acknowledgement that was on point. Some seemed to miss the point on purpose, but I did detect some flapping in the wind as petards were used for the hoisting of!

    I did find the quoting of Wikipedia by some concerning the Scolds Bridle or “the branks” quite interesting. The claim that it was most often used on women is also highly amusing. In fact it was most often used on men, especially in Scotland due to breach of Verbal Contract. Verbal Contract was and still is lawful, and a breach is rather serious. The device was also used in relation to Defamation, Slander and even Contempt Of Court. It’s use also coincided with the either being no Jail available or even the jail being full. Some could do with learning some real history – and not using Wikipedia – that bastion of well known Systemic Bias – where anyone can write anything and present it as fact ….. and they do!

    Amusingly the picture Man Boobz provided of a “Scolds Bridle” is an object I happen to know very well, and which I have in fact tried on! It is an exhibit at the Kelvin Grove Museum, Glasgow and a very well preserved specimen too – used exclusively on MEN! P^)

    Tut Tut – P^)

  10. I have just one point that I would like clarified. You keep saying that Ponkz is a feminist – but I have not been able to trace a reference where that is said by Ponkz.

    You are correct that Ponkz did not state she is a feminist. I assume she is given that most of the readers and posters on Manboobz are feminists. If I am incorrect, let us hope Ponkz will correct me.

    The claim that it was most often used on women is also highly amusing.

    I think that assumption comes from history books, which often state or imply that such speech restraints were used solely or primarily on women.

    Some could do with learning some real history

    Come now. You know internet forbids anyone from fact-checking the things they want to right about it.

  11. Pingback: A Dose of Stupid v94 | Toy Soldiers

  12. ‘The one thing that I have been lead to believe abuse victims face is the fear of accusations of being a liar, an attention seeker, making things up, etc. It’s definitely something I suffered from and still do, hence why it’s only in the last couple of years, since the age of 28, I’ve started to talk about what happened to me to my close friends and I still find myself slightly bracing for impact if I tell anyone about it, waiting for the accusations.

    To have another abuse victim, someone who I naively thought would understand such feelings, use that against me and essentially accuse me of being all “What about my feelings?” and selfish despite the fact I had explicitly expressed sympathy for him, is really upsetting beyond words and I will now probably think twice before disclosing what happened to me to anyone else in future.’

    What a completely contradictory statement! How does she go from ‘fear of accusations of being a liar’ to you not empathising with her feelings enough, so she will now have problems disclosing? This makes no sense at all.

    As for the ‘TS only cares about female survivors if their perpetrator was female’ – WTF?? The reason I’m here is because I believe that only someone abused by a woman will understand what I went through. But that is the whole point. There are umpteen sites for women abused by men and I feel I don’t belong there. This doesn’t mean that as your blog is geared towards male survivors and female survivors of a female perpetrator, that it automatically follows that you don’t care about other survivors. It’s specific for a reason. Where else do we go? We should all be fighting abuse together though. I don’t get this divide and conquer ‘my abuse was worse than your abuse’ stance.

    I think it’s worth stating again that this is a small branch of feminists known as radical feminists and NOT all feminists. They don’t represent the vast majority of feminists. That would be as bad as saying all men are rapists.

  13. “But the fact that he seems to completely disregard female victims – unless their abuser was female – in the name of his own personal vendetta against women in general and feminists in particular is disappointing at best and infuriating/ offensive at worst.”

    You mean TS, in your estimation, does exactly what mainstream rape advocates do to the unacceptable victims of sexual assault?

    How? Does TS say that women and girls raped by men don’t exist, are irrelevant, are a tiny minority, don’t require services, shouldn’t have awareness raised about their issues?’

    I couldn’t agree more.

  14. “I think it’s worth stating again that this is a small branch of feminists known as radical feminists and NOT all feminists. They don’t represent the vast majority of feminists. That would be as bad as saying all men are rapists.”
    Kiboko – men are a gender, feminists are a group of people that belong to a political ideology. It’s not bigotry to dislike feminists any more than to dislike the Labour party. It IS bigotry to dislike (wo)men for being (wo)men. Your gender is a fixed mental construct – political ideology is learned behaviour, and not inate. So, no. It would NOT be as bad as saying that all men are rapists.

  15. It’s not bigotry to dislike feminists any more than to dislike the Labour party. It IS bigotry to dislike (wo)men for being (wo)men.

    Sure it is. It is simply a different kind of bigotry, one focused on a person’s beliefs and politics.

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