You’re not helping v7

I never cease to be amazed by Manboobz regulars’ ability to make complete fools of themselves. Ersatzmoons provided a great example of this. In an attempt to counter Nephrite’s criticism of feminism, erastzmoons wrote:

Feminist lying about Male Victims – you’re actually using an article, based off Manboobz commenters and troll, Anthony Zarat, had here as proof.
Zarat told his story about being raped at 13 by a woman who was then sentenced for 30 years. Seeing as Zarat is a familiar troll and has a history of commenting, many regulars have doubts about his actual life.

Yes, of course. People with a history of writing comments you disagree with are obviously liars.

Ersatz continued:

When Brandon’s girlfriend Ashley “posted” about how glad she was that he got put on moderation, because now they have more fun times, many commenters were skeptical.

Who is Brandon and what does he have to do with Anthony Zarat?

Similarly, because you troll, many commenters originally believed you were MRAL or other trolls because of your argument style.

Right… that makes no sense, but flawed logic does not stop ersatz:

See, how that works? Trolls aren’t 100% honest in how they argue and what they tell, so people don’t believe them 100% of the time.

And who determines whether someone is honest in how they argue or what they tell? Instead of making any logical sense, ersatz essentially claims that because the Manbooberz do not like “trolls” (i.e. anyone who disagrees with them), those people must be lying.

Yet these are the same feminists who argue that rape victims should always be believed. Apparently there is an exception to this rule, and it happens to be any male victim who says something those feminists do not like. Those “victims” do not have to be believed.

It really does not help to defend feminists calling male victims liars. Trying to spin is as “See, he’s a liar because he’s a troll” helps about as much as saying a woman lied about rape because of how she is a “slut.” Even if that woman were the scuzziest of sluts, she should still be a rape victim. A person can be a “troll” and still be a rape victim. They can argue in the most dishonest ways and still be a rape victim. And one can dislike or hate someone who says something you do not like, and that person can still be a rape victim.

No matter how much ersatz tries, in the end what we see is a half-assed, rapist apologist defense of accusing a rape victim of lying because of his sex and his political views. That truly does not help prove that feminists on Manboobz did not call a male victim a liar.

Erstaz tried to work around this by writing:

Myoo said that rapists, who rape children, should receive more than 1-3 years in prison. Male children were included in that defensive, BTW.

Yes, although it is somewhat negated by calling one of those victims a “fucker” for supporting short sentences. I do not agree with Anthony’s idea either, yet I do not feel the need to insult him.

Dracula defended male victims, “Wow Zarat, you really don’t give a fuck about men or boys at all do you? You just called a 30-year-old who raped a 13-year-old a “victim”. How you do sleep at night?”

That was not a defense of male victims. That was an attack on a male victim. It was specifically an accusation that a man who says he was abused as a child does not “give a fuck about men or boys” because he favors shorter sentences for sex offenders.

Happy and Pecuinium were skeptical about his alleged experience, because, HEY, he’s a troll and he has lied and exaggerated before. The Toysoldier post doesn’t seem to cover that.

No, I am not going cover people’s moronic “he’s a lying liar who lies” claims, particularly since at least one of them is so inept and foolish that they cannot keep track of when they accuse of people of lying about their experiences. Pecunium claimed, “I didn’t say I didn’t believe Zarat’s report of his being abused (and the links Toysoldier makes don’t do that). I was dealing with other things about which he was either wrong, or has admitted to lying about.”

Except the links Toysoldier listed do just that:

Happy: I know I’m not talking to Anthony. I’m talking about thinks he says. He’s a lost cause. He admits to lying, thinks his wife needs to be replaced with a computer program; advocates dividing the world into two halves, the male half, and the female half (and thinks the Mississippi river is the middle of the world, and a convenient dividing line), that teaching children not to abuse people is the most horrific of civil rights violations and that rape is no big deal; even when it’s painfully traumatic.

That, or he lies about his experiences.

If you want to make fools out of yourselves, you are more than welcome to do so. However, if you want to prove that Manboobzers do support male victims, you are not helping your case by arguing that it is okay to call some male victims liars because you think they are trolls.


11 thoughts on “You’re not helping v7

  1. Oh dear. They can’t help themselves.

    Feminists don’t lie?

    The manboobers are not the effective face of feminism. That title belongs to the likes of the gender warriors in Australia’s Hawke/Keating and Rudd/Gillard/soon-to-be-Rudd-again governments. The ones who bullied their own public servants into producing distorted studies to enable discrimanatory legislation. The ones who ignore inclusive studies to enable the same. The ones who are moving heaven and earth to ensure victims of female abusers and male victims are marginalised into oblivion.

    I guess THOSE feminists don’t lie. They merely bully somebody else into it.

  2. You know, if these people ever used that “Troll” argument on me I know what I’d do.

    I’d hand them a hand-held mirror. They ever have the urge to call me a “Troll”, I’d ask them to hold it up to their face and then speak, not to take it down until their little ranting was done.

  3. Pingback: 8th Feb 2012 « Men's Voices

  4. Clarence, I do not think Paterno is responsible for Sandusky’s behavior. However, he is responsible for how this was handled. Yes, he reported the incident to the right person. Yet, nothing was done and it is hard to believe he did not know that. Simply cutting ties with Sandusky was not enough. If you suspect the man raped a child, one would think that you would make sure Sandusky was never around children again. That is where the outrage comes from. It is not just that Paterno told one person who was supposed to handle it, but that neither he or anyone else followed up to make sure Sandusky was not hurting more boys.

  5. Ahh, but Jacob:
    I didn’t know that the people he told included one with actual police jurisdiction. I assumed Penn State was like most colleges (Duke being another exception, they ran their own police force with full investigatory and legal powers) and had a bunch of rent a cops. I assumed he just talked to two bureaucrats who had the responsibility to contact the police and washed his hands of it.
    That means he did go “directly to the police” and it made no difference.

  6. Clarence, I understand that. My point is that once he saw that the campus police did nothing, why did he not follow up? Why not call the general police or contact the campus police and find out what happened? It would be one thing if he never heard from, saw, or interacted with Sandusky again. Yet Paterno knew that Sandusky still attended some games, events, and functions to which he brought different boys. You would think that would raise some flags for Paterno.

  7. Jacob:
    I’ll agree with you, there’s still some legitimate questions. But , nonetheless, Paterno is no longer here to answer questions or defend himself and this does raise my opinion of him just a little. Maybe he’s still guilty, but he’s not quite as guilty as I had thought, and to be honest, he’d have more legitimate reasons to trust that it was investigated than I assumed he’d have.

  8. Pingback: A Dose of Stupid v94 | Toy Soldiers

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