A Dose of Stupid v88

It happens every day. In fact, it is pretty hard to avoid it. There are some things that can only be understood with a slap on the forehead. Things so mind-boggling that one wonders how humans managed to evolve thumbs while being this mentally inept. Case in point:

Men’s Rights Activists advocate for ‘human rights’ with rape and death threats

Readers may recall a post from a few weeks ago about a red headed woman shouting profanities at men at a men’s rights event in Toronto. It seems that someone people found out who the woman is and left some nasty comments on her twitter feed, blog, and email. I do not condone anyone doxxing people or leaving threats. I doubt that all the nasty comments against the red head were threats, as feminists have claimed in the past week. However, it is irony that someone so willing to harass and threaten men at a public event would suddenly take issue with a few people doing this to her online.

Of course, that leads to feminists backing this this bully. There have been numerous posts written about her, but one that specifically caught my attention was this one by Danielle Paradis and Anne Theriault. In it they write:

First of all, let’s be clear here: No, Big Red was not polite. Yes, she was abrasive and caustic and downright rude. No, neither of the authors of this article would necessarily choose to protest an event that they feel is designed to silence women by yelling shut the fuck up. Yes, we see the irony in the fact that she was screaming over (seemingly reasonable) voices, claiming that she isn’t being heard.

But you know what? As Polonius said: “Though this be madness, yet there is method in’t.”

She’s not being heard. Those men aren’t listening to her when she’s countering their points about how hard it is to be a man. Those men aren’t listening when she’s trying to explain how feminism is not, in fact, the work of Satan and actually does work to address the issues that they’re bringing up. Those men aren’t listening when she tries to read off a list explaining the actual goals of feminism, but yet they insist she read their list.

The red head was being heard. If you watch the video, the men there were responding to what she shouted at them. It is simply that those men did not agree with her position, and like many feminists, including the two who wrote the article, the red head jumped to the conclusion that disagreeing with her arguments was a sexist attack on her and all women.

And let us look at her argument: she did not list any examples of feminists supporting men. She did not give one actual instance of a feminist group doing something to help men. No, she read a list of nonsense written for another website. That list did not include a single actual example of feminists doing anything to support men, just the declaration that “this is what feminists are against.” Anyone can say they are against something; it takes a little more effort to actually prove it.

Beyond that, a feminist cannot argue that feminists do not try to silence men while she is shouting “shut the fuck up!” at the men she is speaking to. This was what the event sounded like as the two speakers tried to hold their forum. As far as I can tell, none of the men’s rights activists at the Toronto event were rude, threatening, or hostile. They took the vicious remarks from the feminists on campus without much complaint. And keep in mind, the two Toronto events were not about bashing feminism. The first was about the boy crisis in education and the second about misandry.

Obviously, no feminist will ever see anything wrong with the red head’s approach. Even the authors of the article tacitly support her, and that is the problem. When feminists act in blatantly bigoted ways, other feminists excuse that behavior, just as feminists typically excuse women’s general bad behavior. You are not helping your argument by supporting an obvious bigot.

There was no reason for that level of antagonism at a college event. The whole purpose of that display was to silence and threaten men, which makes it ironic that any of the women on the Toronto would be fearful.

The authors later state:

But you know what? We don’t understand how promoting human rights equates to lobbing death threats and rape threats at women who dare to speak out against MRAs.

We have never seen a feminist threaten an MRA with any of those things. Of course, in the bottom half of the internet you never know what you will find, but we haven’t seen it.

I am quite certain Paul Elam has gotten his fair share of nasty comments from feminists, just as I know Warren Farrell has gotten such threats. He actually wrote about that in “The Myth of Male Power”. This idea that feminists are harmless and never do anything wrong simply does not fly. And as is typical of feminists in situations like this, the authors quickly claim that they have never seen any feminist harass or threaten men. Just like feminists never no any feminists who hate men, any feminists who are bigots, or any women who beat, rape, or kill men and boys.

Of course feminists and women leave threats. The difference is that when men get those comments, they do not plaster them all over the internet to try to bash half the human population over the actions of a few. They also are less inclined to use sockpuppets to bolster their claim about threats.

The bigger problem is that feminists cannot see past their ideology. A feminist will never see sexual violence against a man or boy as wrong, let alone as anywhere near as important as sexual violence against females, because their ideology states that “Patriarchy” makes only men rape only women in order for men to oppress women. Their ideology prevents them from seeing things from a different perspective, which is how one ends up with impressively asinine and stupid statements like, “The most common complaints that I hear from MRAs are things that came about as the result of the patriarchy.”

No one is expecting feminists to suddenly think killing, beating, or raping men and boys is bad or that males actually have bad things done to them. No one is expecting feminists to actually care about men’s lives at all beyond how they can use it for a political argument, as was poorly attempted in the article. All anyone asks feminists to do is listen to the counter argument. Yet they are wrapped in a delusion of perpetual victimology so magnificently structured that even when shown a clear example of a feminist literally trying (and failing) to silence men, they still think the woman is the victim.

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19 thoughts on “A Dose of Stupid v88

  1. You’re generalizing pretty heavily here, might I suggest sayng SOME feminists, etc? Their post also generalizes like crazy too, quite frankly I think internet activism is essentially fucked, too much hatred, not enough empathy going on everywhere, the wounds are too deep, not enough people in the mrm or feminism calling out their own members to stfu with the misandry n misogyny. It’s actually depressing to watch.

  2. “We have never seen a feminist threaten an MRA with any of those things.”

    I guess they don’t consider Erin Pizzey an MRA. Then again they didn’t mention threatening children or killing someone’s family dog as “any of those things.” Michele Elliott, founder of Kidscpe, was threatened for standing up for kids, something feminists never do.

    And who can forget Sharon Osborne encouraging castration on the Talk.

    Now picture an all male talk show, laughing it up about female sexual mutilation. Imagine the angst driven feminist outcry. It would be relentless until the show was canceled or at least someone lost their job. Look at Don Imus.

  3. Were any of the death threats and such actually from people claiming to be MRAs? Cause there was a Jezebel article with a similar thrust and the only two messages they posted out of the supposed hundreds were… from a member of the Islamic Brotherhood, and a feminists (or perhaps someone just annoyed that Red was making feminism look bad) IIRC.

  4. Ah the Islamic Brotherhood. Now obviously they are not practicing the “religion of peace”. They must not be true Femin….s, oops, I mean Muslims. It is interesting how some people just cant seem to see past their noses.

  5. Firstly, I have yet to see evidence that such threats were actually sent by MRA’s – the story is known well beyond MRA circles and, unless the authors of the messages explicitly identified as MRAs, it’s simply a false conclusion to say it was MRAs who did it. Feminists are unpopular with pretty much anyone who isn’t a feminist.

    And, as for comparing tendency to be violent or threatening between MRAs and feminists, there is no doubt that feminists win as the undisputed bullies of gender advocates. MRAs don’t even come close, neither historically nor today (imagine an MRA group with a logo that shows a man holding a severed clitoris in his hands dripping with blood). It is incredible that people manage to twist reality so much.

    That video of the red head serves perfectly as an act to represent the entire discourse between feminists and MRAs. If MRAs had paid an actor to play the role to make feminists look bad, they couldn’t have done any better than red head. Chances are MRAs wrote her messages of gratitude more than anything else. Certainly the MRA forums seem to reflect that view. After all, she made their efforts to expose feminism as bigoted hatred a lot easier.

  6. Good points adi. Especially about the unpopularity of feminists. I’ve been reading articles for several years now about renaming “feminism” because many younger women don’t want to be associated with it. When female entertainers like Tina Fey and Katy Perry, definitively say they are not feminists, you would think the ideologues, political hucksters and academics would distance themselves from “Big Red” as much as possible.

  7. Adi, as far as I know, only a few people who sent commented specifically stated their political affiliation. I think feminists simply assume the comments come from men’s rights activists. And as I noted in the post, I suspect some of those comments are probably fake ones created by feminists to bolster the claim that men’s rights activists are attacking feminists.

  8. “And as I noted in the post, I suspect some of those comments are probably fake ones created by feminists to bolster the claim that men’s rights activists are attacking feminists.”

    Couldn’t agree more. It’s an attempt to diminish the obnoxious audacity of “Big Red” while at the same time making unprovable accusations against MRA’s. They are saying she was offensive but agreeing with her at the same time. Then immediately attacking MRA’s.

  9. “She’s not being heard. Those men aren’t listening to her when she’s countering their points about how hard it is to be a man. Those men aren’t listening when she’s trying to explain how feminism is not, in fact, the work of Satan and actually does work to address the issues that they’re bringing up. Those men aren’t listening when she tries to read off a list explaining the actual goals of feminism, but yet they insist she read their list.”

    We’ve been listening to feminists for fifty fucking years. We’ve listened long enough that any one of us could present the entire feminist argument in such a way that another feminist couldn’t tell that we weren’t a feminist.

    It’s STILL bullshit.

    1% of men in positions of power does NOT translate into any power for the other 99% and never has, any more than England having a queen instead of a king made individual women into queens with absolute monarchal powers.

    As other commenters have said, I DON’T believe that even 10% of the so-called “death and rape threats” came from MRA’s and I don’t even believe that 10% of them were “death or rape threats”. We all know what the feminist definition of “rape” looks like, it includes things that no person in their right mind would call rape, and completely excludes male adults and male minors who’ve had a woman push them down, sit on them and force their penis into her vagina. When feminists lobbied the FBI to expand the definition of rape, they DELIBERATELY excluded this act.

    Why?

    Patriarchy, of course! No, I’m just kidding.

    The sick,twisted, and sad reality is that they don’t want the numbers to show the truth THAT WOMEN RAPE AS OFTEN OR MORE OFTEN THAN MEN DO. We’ll never know which one it is,because feminists send death threats to anyone researching the numbers, but we know it’s one of those two, because feminists send death threats to anyone researching these issues. If the numbers truly bolstered their case, they wouldn’t have a problem with letting us see them.

    Just in case any self-identified MRA’s ARE sending death or rape threats (in the sane sense of the words,not the feminist sense of the words “threat” or “rape”), I’ll come out and say something a feminist would NEVER SAY to a feminist doing the same thing-STOP IT.

    Now,how many feminists are going to tell their balaclava-wearing,armed with box cutters and bludgeons,freedom-of-speech-squashing death squads on universities across the western world the same thing? NOT A GODDAMNED ONE.

    Not a single one…..ever.

    What part of the patriarchy makes certain that we can’t have a peaceful discussion while feminists send out press releases guaranteeing violence if we try? What part of the patriarchy is that, you fucking RETARDS?

  10. “Valerie Jean Solanas (April 9, 1936 – April 25, 1988) was an American radical feminist writer who is best known for her assassination attempt on artist Andy Warhol. In 1967, Solanas began self-publishing the SCUM [Society for Cutting Up Men] Manifesto. Olympia Press owner Maurice Girodias offered to publish Solanas’ future writings, and she understood the contract to mean that Girodias would own her writing. Convinced that Girodias and Warhol were conspiring to steal her work, Solanas purchased a gun in the spring of 1968. On June 3, she sought out Girodias, who was gone for the weekend. She then went to The Factory, where she found Warhol. She shot at Warhol three times, with the first two shots missing and the final wounding Warhol. She also shot art critic Mario Amaya, and attempted to shoot Warhol’s manager, Fred Hughes, point blank, but the gun jammed.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Solanas

    Not that Andy Warhol was an MRA, of course, but it goes to show what some feminists are capable of.

  11. “You’re generalizing pretty heavily here, might I suggest sayng SOME feminists, etc? ”

    So let’s restrict his assertion to just the feminists who make these threats and smear them all across the internet, and those who enable them and give them cover by refusing to denounce them – because that is essentially the same thing. Okay?

    So where are all those feminsts denouncing this kind of activity? Who does that leave? Have Joanna schroeder or Lisa Hickey denounced kind of intimidation of men, for instance?

  12. >Those men aren’t listening when she tries to read off a list explaining the actual goals of feminism, but yet they insist she read their list.

    It’s like they live in Bizarro world. They managed to get things almost exactly backwards. People listened to her, and tried to respond, and she wouldn’t listen.

    It also seems to imply that she has some sort of right to be listened to, while saying nothing about any obligation on her part to actually listen to the people she’s making claims about. I wonder if this includes the part where she’s literally singing of her unconcern for suicide victims, which very few of the folks defending her seem to mention. They linked it in the article as an “edited video”, but Red and her supporters are the only person claiming the evidence of her being “provoked” was edited out, with no corroborating evidence. I’d really, really like to know what sort of “provocation” makes it okay to actively mock someone trying to talk about suicide victims.

    I also like how they’re trying to reframe the argument so AVFM is somehow at fault for publicizing her horrible actions, but not her for actually doing them. At no point do they actually manage to say Big Red was actually wrong.

    Also, AVFM has actually banned discussion of her real name, and Esmay said that anyone who threatens her is his enemy, that he supports her right to be as loud and stupid as she pleases.

    Hypocritically, there’s a video of her arguing at a gay rights march, saying that if someone don’t agree with the LGBTQ cause, they shouldn’t come to a gay rights march.

    But, of course, given that neither she nor FC noticed that at one point Red is clearly shouting down a woman who disagrees with her, not a “woman-hating” man, expecting them to have any significant amount of self-awareness at all is a tad optimistic.

  13. “So where are all those feminsts denouncing this kind of activity? Who does that leave? Have Joanna schroeder or Lisa Hickey denounced kind of intimidation of men, for instance?”
    I’ve seen them denounce extremists before, haven’t seen either of them comment much let alone about the redheaded lady (and I use redheaded lady as a clear descriptor, I refuse to use a name she may have unless she freely gives it) in that video.

    We can’t however generalize against one group and get annoyed at them generalizing another group.

  14. “We can’t however generalize against one group and get annoyed at them generalizing another group.”

    Oooooookaaayyy. Not all feminists either actively want to kill,marginalize,mock,exclude, or castrate men or offer their tacit support for those actions, just all of the ones that you can actually see or talk to, which is all of them. There may be, in some alternate universe, or galaxy far,far, away, a single feminist that has equal concern for male victims and female victims, but if you spend 10 years as an activist for men’s rights, actively trying to seek them out and work with them,you will never find one, because many of us have done that already.

    I haven’t run across a feminist yet who “wasn’t like that” and yet you can visit just two manosphere sites at random and find two entirely different perspectives on EVERYTHING.

    I don’t see anything wrong with generalizing people who are carbon copies of each other. If you don’t want us to generalize feminists,perhaps you should find us a feminist who isn’t a stereotypical feminist,whose beliefs are categorically feminist,and not misnamed red pill beliefs.I’m not going to refrain from helpful generalizations of feminists that turn out to be correct 90% of the time based on what feminists SAY about themselves and each other,that’s just stupid.

    Hey, I know where you’re coming from. I was one of you “don’t generalize” people. You can probably still find old comments under this name telling people not to generalize. You know what happened? I found out that most of the time,the generalizers were right. In the end, every feminist IS like that.

    Keep your eyes open. Give it time. You’ll see I’m right.

  15. How about this for a “generalization about feminists?”

    Feminism is based on patriarchy theory. Patriarchy theory is the unproven assertion that men oppress women.

    That is enough, IMHO, to know that the entirety of the ideology–not the people themselves who have that belief system–is morally bankrupt.

  16. Keep your eyes open. Give it time. You’ll see I’m right.(nergal)

    “The world is 50% shit, 50% sugar, you choose where you put your focus. But just remember, if you stand in shit long enough it dries around you.”

  17. Pingback: Sunday Link Encyclopedia and Self-Promotion | Clarissa's Blog

  18. We cannot generalize about Nazis, you know. Generalizations are not helpful in either direction. There is a good racism too, you should not generalize.

    I fully agree, in fact I find some serial killers more interesting than others.

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