A Dose of Stupid v103

It happens every day. In fact, it is pretty hard to avoid it. There are some things that can only be understood with a slap on the forehead. Things so mind-boggling that one wonders how humans managed to evolve thumbs while being this mentally inept. Case in point:

A 12 Year-Old Boy’s First Kiss Shouldn’t Be With a Grown Woman

I was ready to agree with that statement until I saw what it referred to:

That little peck was nothing. It is hardly worth mentioning. It certainly does not rise to the level of child rape . And yet Joanna Schroeder could not help herself:

Now let’s be clear: In no way do I think the sexual abuse perpetrated by teachers against students is comparable to a little kiss by a celebrity upon a kid, with his parents’ permission. I’m going to italicize and bold that, so you know I’m serious.

Well, that is good.

But […]

No.

[…] I do think this little kiss and the abuse of boys by female adults are related in one way: people’s double standards about protecting girls vs “making men” out of boys.

No.

Imagine a concert with a gorgeous, highly-desired star on stage.

Are you honestly going have this conversation?

A kid is in the audience with a sign asking for a first kiss from the superstar singer.

Honestly?

The singer pulls the kid on stage and delivers a lip-to-lip kiss. We just saw that in the video above, right?

Now imagine if the singer were John Mayer. Imagine if the kid were a somewhat awkward 12 year-old girl who still had some adorable baby fat on her face.

It happened. Mayer kissed the girl on the cheek. The world did not care.

That creeps me out.

Luckily it didn’t really happen. But it changes things, doesn’t it?

No.

An adolescent girl’s first kiss shouldn’t be with a grown man, no matter how famous. So why doesn’t the Carrie Underwood video creep people out?

Is that a rhetorical question or you would like the answer?

I will give one: because most people have the basic sense to understand that a little peck on the lips is nothing.

I realize Schroeder tries very hard to appear that she cares about male victims. This is one of those times it is better to leave it to the professionals or actual victims or people who are not guided by a warped ideology.

Carrie Underwood kissed the boy on the lips in front of thousands of people, a kiss the boy asked for. She did not make out with him. She pecked him on the lips. To put this in perspective: Underwood held the boy’s hand close to her breast longer than she kissed him. She made eye-contact with him longer than she kisses him. She blinked at him longer than she kissed him.

Where is the double standard? That people think it is cute? It is cute. Here is a grown woman humoring a little boy by kissing him on the lips. It is just a kiss. If this were a man, it would be cute as well. It is just a kiss. The only way it would be inappropriate would be in the person were previously accused or convicted of sex offenses, like when Michael Jackson allowed Julian Bashir to film him holding a 14-year-old boy’s hand during an interview. (The boy later accused Jackson of abuse; Jackson was acquitted.)

Yet what do I know. Go on, Schroeder. Tell us why people do not think Underwood’s peck on the lips is creepy:

I’ll tell you why. It’s because, as a society, we don’t feel a need to protect boys’ innocence when it comes to sexual or romantic interactions with girls and women.

We’ve also already cast our victim/perpetrator roles and they are as follows: Girls and women are the victims of men and boys. The end.

And who created that narrative? We know it was not men because there are many cultures so fearful of women’s sexuality that they require women to hide their bodies with clothes or entire buildings lest they tempt men.

So who created the narrative than only women can be victims?

We see it time and again when yet another pretty teacher is charged with sexual abuse of a minor boy. Comments sections are filled with “‘atta boy”s and virtual high-fives for the children.

We hear taunts from celebrities like Bill Maher who famously coined the term “Lucky Bastard Syndrome” for boys who have been raped (statutory or otherwise) by adult females. We hear him reflect what many people think – that a boy or man who complains about being raped or sexually abused by a woman or girl needs to man up and grow a pair.

And those pretending to care about male victims who respond to men who complain about their abuse at the hands of women by calling it “whining” and “misogyny” and “attempting to silence women.”

And that is sick. That is sick to a degree that I can’t even start to explain. And it often keeps male survivors of abuse silent.

Given how frequently Schroeder and other feminists engage in that behavior, it is good she at least knows the results of her actions. It is curious, however, that when I and other male survivors stated this very thing numerous times on the Good Men Project, it resulted in our comments being deleted and future comments being blocked or heavily moderated. It would appear that the only time it is acceptable for anyone to talk about double standards is when feminists decide they want to do it — on male survivors’ behalf.

Speaking as a male survivor, I do not need you do to that, especially not in this case.

Schroeder is trying too hard to look like she cares about male survivors, and in the process not only makes herself look absolutely foolish, but also does male survivors a disservice.

Real instances of double standards happen all the time. Those are the ones people should focus on, not something as benign as a country star kissing a 12-year-old fan for less than a second. Focusing on Underwood’s kiss diminishes the serious issues male victims of female abusers face. It turns the concern into a farce, as if those complaining about female abusers are playing up non-issues.

Male survivors do not need feminists to turn the effort to assist abused men and boys into the joke that is modern feminism. If feminists want to lose their minds over a scientist wearing a shirt, they are welcome to do so. However, they do not get to co-opt male survivors’ experiences and use them to make overblown generalizations about a non-issue.

But there’s a strange story that runs through our collective consciousness that needs to end here and now. It’s the myth that guys are always up for sex, and that they’ll never say no. Somehow we’ve come to believe that the hallmark difference between boys and girls is that boys want “it” all the time and girls’ job is to protect themselves from having “it” taken away from them. And it’s bullshit.

Yes, it is. Yet this is not an example of that, and there is no reason to turn it into one. If you want a story to write about, Schroeder, here is one. Or this one. Or this one. Or this one.

However, I do not think Schroeder’s post was really about Underwood. I think it was about Schroeder’s awkward first kiss and her projecting, as many feminists do, her experiences onto others. Hence:

Don’t all kids deserve to have a truly romantic, mutual experience for their first kiss? Didn’t he deserve to have what I had, what you may have had, what we all hope for our kids: butterflies when seeing the person he crushes on, questions of whether he or she loves him back and wants to kiss him, the mutually awkward experience of being a young person who has no idea what they’re doing, but does it anyway because the desire in both of them to connect in this special way is so overwhelming?

How does Schroeder know that was not what the boy took away from the kiss? How many people get to meet a famous person they like, ask that person for a kiss, and receive it in front of thousands of people? Does Schroeder not realize how special that moment is to the boy? Does she not realize that is likely the reason Underwood kissed the boy?

Likewise, every first kiss is not a shared love experience. One person could like the other while the other just wants the kiss. Or it could be a joke. Or it could be a mean ruse. Or it could be an awkward mistake. Every first kiss is not overwhelmingly “special.”

It would be nice if they were, yet they are not, and they do not have to be.

If you think that this kid was a lucky bastard, but that a girl in that same position with a grown man would’ve been just plain sick and wrong, then you need to take some time and examine your double standards.

If you think that an adult giving a child a peck on the lips that the child asked for is “just plain sick and wrong,” then you need to take some time and examine your standards, Schroeder.

If Underwood had walked up to a boy on the street and kissed him, I would agree she did wrong. Instead, she kissed a boy who asked for a kiss, and it was nothing more than a playful peck. There are far more serious issues to deal with. As much as I do not want Schroeder anywhere near them for fear of how much she will make matters worse, the least she is pick an actual issue.

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11 thoughts on “A Dose of Stupid v103

  1. We hear taunts from celebrities like Bill Maher who famously coined the term “Lucky Bastard Syndrome” for boys who have been raped (statutory or otherwise) by adult females. We hear him reflect what many people think – that a boy or man who complains about being raped or sexually abused by a woman or girl needs to man up and grow a pair.

    And those pretending to care about male victims who respond to men who complain about their abuse at the hands of women by calling it “whining” and “misogyny” and “attempting to silence women.”

    Couldn’t have put it better myself toysoldier. But I’ll leave you with this nugget of wisdom:

    “We hanker for the old, simple, black and white questions were WE could broadly persuade ourselves that WE were on the side of Angels, and THEY were the bad guys.”

    I think that’s deep down what the SJW clowns hunger for. Oh, and power.

  2. Where was she when Jenny McCarthy ravaged Justin Bieber on stage? THAT was a kiss that was efinitely unwanted.

  3. I watched the footage.

    And I was giggling with giddiness. What a great moment for a fan. And Carrie Underwood understood the context. You can see it in her facial expression.

    You’re right, Toysoldier. It was just a peck on the lips, gifted with a smile from an artist who was willing to appease a twelve-year old admirer. Totally innocent.

    I never thought I’d see the day that Joanna would go 180 degrees and STILL miss the boat completely.

  4. Schroeder did exactly what the boy did. She was using Underwood to capitalize from her fame. Im sure the boy will get all kinds of “hits” from it and Im sure that was part of Schroeder’s mindset, as in, “How many hits will this piece get”. The difference is that one is born of youthful innocence, the other, I dont even want to speculate.

  5. Toysoldier, I believe there’s fodder for another Dose Of Stupid entry.

    Here: http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/mkdn-never-play-gta/comment-page-1/#comment-1924647

    Just read the comments by people like July. All those sardonic, bigoted, apathetic replies to men on there that have a problem with the article.

    Also note, none of them are getting moderated or facing deletion. Every single assumption about men in that thread still stands.

    Those moderators have done it again: Re-enforced a hostile environment for people who are genuinely for equality, especially men.

  6. For the record, I am the one who brought this issue to Joanna’s attention after we had posted it here on the MS wall a few days ago. Her writing about it was in large part because of conversations she and I had.

    I see that you have you and the commenters on your page have opinions about GMP, and Ms. Schroeder – feelings are far different from mine. I have no desire to address your anger w/ Joanna, as I feel at best all we can do is agree to disagree.

    With regards to your feelings about the innocuousness of this particular kiss, I feel you are perhaps, missing the point of the article. Joanna’s point (as is mine) is not to suggest that Underwood is a perpetrator of sexual abuse in this instance, nor are we suggesting that this boy is a victim of abuse. The point is calling out the toxic double standards that are on display here that inevitably drive male survivors further into the shadows by demeaning and denigrating the very idea that a man could be in any way violated by a female.

    Again, we may well disagree ultimately that this is even a problem. However I would say that I know men for whom even seeing this moment is a trigger of experiences that they went through. And I feel that, to some extent, your blog post is deeply disrespectful to them, as it is to Joanna and to me.

  7. Christopher, I suspected that Schroeder’s post resulted from such a conversation. That is the most logical explanation for what is an overreaction.

    I did not miss the point of the article; I only pointed out that there is zero connection between Underwood’s actions and the point Schroeder wanted to discuss. You admit that neither of you consider Underwood an abuser or the boy an abuse victim. Why then use their kiss to discuss double standards that favor female abusers? This would be akin to mentioning Annie Leibovitz’s series of baby photos, stating that you do not think she is a pedophile or that her photos are sexual in nature, and then talking about the problems of child pornography. The implication is that one does consider there to be some connection, i.e. that you and Schroeder do think Underwood committed some form of abuse.

    One can discuss the double standards male survivors face without using Underwood to begin that discussion. As I noted in my remarks, there are numerous cases of actual abuse that one could use. This clearly was not one of them. I understand some male survivors might find Underwood’s kiss triggering. I am also aware that some male survivors find other benign acts triggering. I am one them. I find being touched triggering. It would be irrational, however, to assume that because I find it triggering that means there is something wrong or inappropriate with a child hugging someone he loves. We can respect the experiences of abused men without projecting their reactions onto everyone else.

    My reaction, albeit justified by my experiences, is an overreaction. Likewise, if someone finds Underwood’s kiss triggering, it is an overreaction. There is nothing wrong with her behavior. To bring it up in the context of discussing double standards that favor female abusers suggests otherwise. As I stated in my post, that does a disservice to male survivors by trivializing a legitimate issue. It also does the boy a disservice by treating him as a victim rather than some innocent kid who simply wanted his crush to kiss him

    As for my opinion of Schroeder, let me first state that I harbor no anger towards her. However, she does not have my respect. She lost that when she responded to men challenging a sexist anti-violence campaign by telling them:

    You want to talk more about awareness of women abusing men? Then DO SOMETHING about it other than complain and antagonize in a thread dedicated to a poster that is designed to HELP PEOPLE HELP each other.

    When I see you three actually working for domestic abuse organizations, even if you wrote stories for GMP about it (I, myself, publish these pieces with some regularity, I even seek them out) then I’d have more respect for this stuff.

    Instead, I see a group of men saying that a group of men who want to help men help women is somehow hurting you.

    One does not get to make that statement — accusing men speaking out about male victimization and challenging stereotypes about who can be abusers and victims — and then claim to support the very people one tried to silence. I have no respect for a person to attacks people in one breath and claims to be their ally in another. And I find it disconcerting that you, someone who actually does help male survivors, not only listens to but respects such a person.

  8. Eagle, that kind of stupid is beyond my pay grade. I do not know what is more bizarre, that they fail to realize the option to kill prostitutes has been an option since GTA 3 or that they appear to have no problem with the hundreds of in-game murders against men the player must commit in order to win the game.

  9. Christopher M: With regards to your feelings about the innocuousness of this particular kiss, I feel you are perhaps, missing the point of the article. Joanna’s point (as is mine) is not to suggest that Underwood is a perpetrator of sexual abuse in this instance, nor are we suggesting that this boy is a victim of abuse. The point is calling out the toxic double standards that are on display here that inevitably drive male survivors further into the shadows by demeaning and denigrating the very idea that a man could be in any way violated by a female.

    So, of all the things to choose, you go after an artist planting an innocent peck on the lips of a young admirer? A display that many artists of both sexes, albeit rarely, have done for decades.

    In that comment thread, I pointed out an event that is far better an emphasis on the double-standards you and Joanna decry: When Jenny McCarthy put her hands on Justin Bieber, groping and kissing him then bragging about after on national television. THAT’s a far better example than the one you and Joanna chose.

  10. Pingback: Former tutor claims student abused her | Toy Soldiers

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