A Dose of Stupid v118

It happens every day. In fact, it is pretty hard to avoid it. There are some things that can only be understood with a slap on the forehead. Things so mind-boggling that one wonders how humans managed to evolve thumbs while being this mentally inept. Case in point:

Throughout 2015 several domestic violence organizations decided to open their doors to male victims New organizations dedicated to helping male victims were created. There are even shelters for male victims in the works. Again, all of this happened over the course of the last year.

Something rarely mentioned in any of the articles about these changes is this: why did it take so long?

Again, it is 2015. Not 2005, not 1995, not 1965. Why did it take so long for people to finally consider domestic violence a serious issue?

Better yet, why do we need specific services for male victims? Are there not existing services? Why can we not use those services for men? Is there some double standard at play?

One person decided to ask a similar question to the gang at r/AskFeminists. Thomas_222x asked the snarky question:

Isn’t it hypocritical when feminists say they oppose gender stereotypes, when they perpetrate those stereotypes talking about domestic violence.

Feminists say they oppose the gender stereotypes of men being strong and women being weak.

But they also justify excluding men from domestic abuse services by saying men are strong and women are weak.

Why isn’t this hypocritical?

The primary reason feminists ignore male victims has nothing to do with “weakness” and “strength.” It is about the narrative that domestic violence is a toll men use to subjugate women. That narrative cannot function is domestic violence is something women do to men on a regular basis.

Thomas is slightly correct that the feminist argument is that due to male physical, economic, and social power they are “stronger” than women, therefore in the unlikelihood that men are victims of domestic they will face less harm than women. That is a rather absurd position, yet it is the most common refrain from feminists regarding the issue. The second most common refrain was offered by tigalicious, who stated:

I’ve never heard of men being excluded from domestic abuse services by feminists. Can you find a source to back up that claim before we discuss it further?

I replied on the subreddit:

As a victim’s advocate and someone who has spent almost 15 years around male victims of physical and sexual violence, I can say I hear about these situations at least twice a month from men and boys I meet. The number jumps to two to three times a week if I count articles and online comments. I find it improbable that anyone frequently working with male victims has never heard of men and boys being turned away from services.

You mentioned that you volunteer at a feminist-run crisis center that does provide services to men, but the services are underused. What are the “resources specifically for male victims” you mentioned? Does the center advertise to let men know they are welcome? Does it do any outreach for male victims? Why do you think male victims do not use the resources (aside from your assertion that men are discouraged)?

As for your request for sources, I have written about this frequently. Here are some of the most egregious examples:

The Queensland premier warned not to focus on male victims
Why are there no refuges for male victims of domestic violence?

Those were general examples. Here are specific instances in which feminist-run organizations refused to help male victims:

CA Appellate Court Says Excluding Men from Domestic Violence Programs is Unconstitutional
Women’s refuges told they must admit men
When asked to service male victims, domestic violence support team pulls plug

Here is one more unrelated to domestic violence, but I want to include because seven years later I still find it absolutely stunning: South West Rape Crisis and Sexual Abuse Centre kicked out of the national Rape Crisis network because they offered services to male victims.

Again, I do not know how anyone working with male victims would be unaware of this. That is not an attack; it is a observation. I do not know anyone who has worked with male victims during the last 20 years who said they never heard of male victims being turned away. Dr. Richard Garnter wrote about it in his 1996 book Betrayed as Boys. Glenn Sacks talked about it on his show a decade ago. The CEO of Mankind UK, a support group for male victims of sexual violence, conducted a small survey about this issue. The Canadian government found the same problems. It is unfortunately a very common problem, which is why we see groups in 2015 stating that they are accepting male victims for the first time in their decades long history.

I am not sure what feminists like tigalicious expect to gain from arguing that they never see feminists do any wrong. Not only is it rather easy to prove them wrong, but it also demonstrates a blindside to their view of the situation. Tigalicious stated that they volunteer at a feminist-run crisis center. Can one imagine how tigalicious’s attitude would play out in that situation? If a man said he had been turned away from every other shelter, how would feminists like tigalicious respond?


12 thoughts on “A Dose of Stupid v118

  1. I was a male victim of domestic abuse. In 2009, in the entire Chicago Metropolitan Area comprising most of ten counties— there was nothing except homeless shelters. I got lucky, my sister gave me shelter and then helped in getting my own place after I had to leave my violent wife. Otherwise– I’d have slept in the van in a parking lot, like as not.

    It’s gotten better but not by much. Most services for men coming out of a DV situation are for helping him overcome his anger so he’ll stop beating his wife– next to nothing to help a man who is being beaten by his wife.

    If these things are changing for the better— good. It’s way past time that it did. We hurt, too.

  2. mjmsprt40-

    That’s my neck of the woods, I’m beyond disappointed to hear there is nothing. Is that still the case, and if so, is there anything I can do?

  3. I’ve written (here, various places) about running the only group for male victims of rape and sexual child abuse in this city of 2 million (Minneapolis), and the number of men who were almost shocked when I’d immediate answer the contact phone line (that was my “service goal”, immediate response), and offer to listen and try to help them. Because, they often told of having called 10 other crisis/help lines, leaving messages, not getting call-backs in several weeks, being told “we don’t help men” and otherwise finding nothing.

    And of course, the feminist Sexual Violence Center here, indeed did call me back after I sought help there…. FOUR YEARS later, and in a most perfunctory 30 seconds explained they need a large waiting list because so few men show up for help.

    For a while I had 2 groups/week, 6, 8, 10 men per group with my part-time, personally funded efforts, so CLEARLY there was a need and demand. And suicide was a fairly frequent topic to come up, though usually as an expression of despair and hopelessness.

    Feminists are never going to hear nor help men, now or in decades.

  4. Peter, I live in Chicago. There are a few services that assist male victims, but none that specifically serve that community that I know about. The most prominent one that assists men that I am aware of is Center on Halsted, which is primarily for the GLBT community. I do not think they would turn away straight men and they are likely the most equipped to address the issues men face, yet given their focus and location (they are in Boystown, the “gay” neighborhood) I am not sure how many men would want to go there.

  5. Women’s Aid said something similar problem, that male domestic violence victims are mostly either perpetrators themselves, or later “denied” that they suffered domestic violence.

    I don’t know about any of you, but I smell a rat.

  6. Even if men didn’t mind the “boystown” aspect of going to boystown- the parking is terrible, and that’s not much capacity or coverage.

    What would it take to set up a men’s shelter? I’m thinking in the west or northwest suburbs.

  7. What would it take to set up a men’s shelter? I’m thinking in the west or northwest suburbs.

    It would be expensive, but there is also the issue of accessibility. Many people in Chicago do not drive, so getting to a shelter out in Schaumburg may prove difficult.

  8. “they need a large waiting list because so few men show up for help”
    I’m not sure what response you might like, and I could explain many examples but it’s just the usual story of one double standard, inconsistency and falsehood after another. i.e. “I’ve never heard of men being excluded…” They explained at one point why they haven’t had a men’s support group for years. (And they “can’t” have a mixed group. I asked.) “Because men don’t want help. They don’t show up when called and offered a group.” Because the response rate is so low to form a group requiring 4,6, 8 men, they take names for several years until they have some 60, 80, 100 names. Still, they don’t get 8 takers of course, after 4 years, changed numbers, etc. so they are off the hook for another 4 years.

    Accepting federal and state funds as they do, this is illegal gender discrimination. They cannot exclude anyone by law. This is just a little fiction to prove “there is no need” for services for men.

    It’s been this way for… years, decades I imagine.

    Honestly, male survivors and their “advocacy organizations” like 1in6, MaleSurvivor.org, are generally the biggest white knights and feminist supporters around, and you just can’t tell them anything is wrong with this system in the slightest. When a group is so self-destructive in their attitudes, they are just a huge pain to try to help. So I quit. TS here is one of the very, very rare men I’ve come across who is able and willing to speak the truth.

    Until more men complain, confront and start fighting back, “Men don’t want help.” is going to remain “the truth”.

  9. I’m not sure what response you might like, and I could explain many examples but it’s just the usual story of one double standard, inconsistency and falsehood after another. i.e. “I’ve never heard of men being excluded…”

    That is nothing more than deflection and it is something many feminists use when they cannot deal with the criticism. It is absurd, of course. It is no difficult than someone claiming they have never heard of black people being racist or police officers being bad cops. Of course they have heard of it and likely witnessed it. They simply do not want to concede the point. The way you deal with this is as I did: present the evidence and let them write it off. Everyone else will see them do it and people will then know that their bias is at play.

    Honestly, male survivors and their “advocacy organizations” like 1in6, MaleSurvivor.org, are generally the biggest white knights and feminist supporters around, and you just can’t tell them anything is wrong with this system in the slightest.

    I cannot speak for 1in6, however, my experiences with MaleSurvivor have been positive. As far as I know, the organization itself and its forum does not pander to feminists or progressives. Even 1in6 does not appear to do so, although they do run a number of articles on the Good Men Project. I do know that Christopher Anderson of MS does tend to support feminism, yet I have seen him criticize the framing of sexual violence as a women’s issue.

    Until more men complain, confront and start fighting back, “Men don’t want help.” is going to remain “the truth”.

    I think it must go beyond that. More men and women must make feminists and progressives defend their positions. I can challenge this nonsense every day and it will have little impact. Yet when I directly ask someone to explain it and they cannot, everyone who does not already side with that person suddenly understands my point. Even if they do not agree with my position on feminism, they understand that what I said is true. That is why feminists are so quick to ban and block anyone who challenges them. It is not that they cannot handle dissent; it is that they know they do not have an answer and everyone will see.

  10. OK, Allan— you’re on. You just declared that male victims– like myself– are the biggest white knights around and won’t come and ask for help. Given your comment above—– give me one good reason why I should expect help from you if I do ask. One. Just one.

    I have gotten at least limited help from friends, family and the church I attend— which is why I don’t live in my van these days. So, I had that going for me. I wonder what men who are isolated do. (One tactic of abusers is to isolate their victim– my ex tried that with me, but I knew she was lying.)

  11. mfmsprt40, I’m not sure what you’re asking but I gather my comment offends you. It wasn’t meant of you personally, but I’ve long tried to understand what is going on, that feminists can twist so many “issues” into being “gendered” to justify creating industries that serve only a certain class of people (feminists, other women) generally in spite on considerable evidence this is increasing “gender disparities” opposite to what they claim. Take educational achievement today for example.

    My specific education: I came to understand services in response to “sexual violence” (all the specific behaviors/experiences) as basically a health care issue without a clear gender component in fact, in incidence, in effect/outcomes although uncertainty around many questions can be pretty high. I thoroughly enjoyed discussing male experience and my own in of all this and its connection to drug and alcohol issues, “anger management”, homeless youth, different populations of men (gay, straight, military, Hispanic, african American, young, old, religious and not, etc.) as well as the “perpetrator side”… the issues around the offenders.

    What I found is there are many profound barriers to DOING any of this. There is a political problem: feminists oppose services and discussion of men and they completely control this industry. Example: Social workers used to be 50/50 men/women and are now 91% women and 100% radical feminist. And you need credentials to do this. Try doing your internship and master’s research working with male survivors. But most confounding is why male survivors themselves do not speak out or demand changes. I’ve gotten very little real help advocating from male survivors and a lot of opposition or conspicuous silence that takes a feminist spin. Malesurvivor.org, 1in6 are no different. They appear to be very, very afraid to offend the feminist establishment, which I would also say is quite justified. The truth offends! But have men so little courage? They are utter cowards.

    I would say of the nature of male-female relationships is that women have a considerable social power balancing and corresponding to the more male physical strengths, and currently they are very much using it to harm men as a group. I’ve “taken the red pill” as they say and I see it everywhere. Consider objective measures of gender equality: lifespan, causes of death i.e. suicide. Death is a good domain for equality measures because accurate records are made and kept. Look across history and cultures. It has not always been so.

    As for helping you personally, if you’re ever in Minneapolis on your job, look me up. I’ll buy you lunch and I can listen and understand, I can share “wisdom, hope and strength” as they say in AA. That is mostly all I can do because I am just an individual though several years running a male survivor support group, I was surprised just how much help that could be. It cost almost nothing to the agency yet they would remove the brochures from their lobby (or someone did). There’s not even an agency to volunteer at here to specifically try to work with male survivors of sexual violence as far as I know. Perhaps you can explain to me why that is?

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s