A few weeks ago Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada made a statement about the absence of women at the circle-jerk roundtable meetings. The Q&A was:
NRAMA: Noticeably absent (and for some time) is a female creator in that group. Big picture wise, why hasn’t a women creator made it into the tight circle of Marvel creators?
JQ: Because currently there aren’t any female writers working on any of our major titles. That said there are female editors at the summit.
That is it. Nothing more, nothing less. The response to his comment was… passionate. Quesada’s follow-up to his perceived sexism only worsened the situation, at least in the eyes of feminist comic book fans.
And, really, is Quesada — a male in a high position in one of the Big Two of American comics — really in a position to determine the answer to the hostility question? He’s in a position to disagree, sure. To offer counterarguments from the perspective of someone in the industry (and he does, which I will get to later), but saying “I disagree and here’s why” is a far cry from calling the problem “ridiculous.” The former opens the floor up for a discussion, the latter presents him as an authority on women in the comic industry. Which, I’m sorry, but he’s not. He can’t be, because he’s never had the experience of being a woman in the comic industry.
Since no one bothered to question whether comic books, their creators and particularly their fans are inherently sexist, I thought I would offer some criticism of that view. Just to note, I would have posted this as a response on the original site, but past experience suggests that my gender will render my opinions devoid of any merit, particularly since I am a “fan boy.”
Firstly, I think Quesada’s initial answer was an absolutely fair and honest answer, and literally the only one he could give without lying. There aren’t any females working on any of the major titles at Marvel. The notion that there should be just because they are female completely degrades the art form. It further trivializes comic books, which are already viewed as sophomoric and juvenile because of their predominantly male readership. The purpose of comic books (ignoring the money-making aspect) is to tell great, entertaining stories. It is not to subject the readers and the creators to political correctness.
Secondly, the fact of the matter is the vast majority of American comic books are tailored towards male readers. The stories, the characters and even the general mythology specifically attract males. One of the interesting aspects of comic books is that the majority of the creators grew up as fans. Now, considering that males make up the majority of comic book fans, it is hardly surprising that the majority of the portfolio and writing submissions Marvel receives comes from males. Marvel would have to adopt one strange hiring practice that would deliberately skip over thousands of males in order to hire females for no other reason that they are female. That is blatant sexism against males, which is unfortunately most commonly suggested as the remedy for the absence of women in any given field. And yet, given the number of submissions Marvel receives in a given year, a quota system is the only way it would be possible to fill all or half their open positions with women.
Thirdly, there is a failure to acknowledge whether women generally have an interest in reading and creating comic books. If we want to have an honest discussion, then we have to address that rather valid question. For now, the answer appears to be no. And that is not just looking at who attends conventions or who submits to the Big Two. Considering the stark difference of material females choose to work on when producing on Indy comic books, the absence of women in the Big Two looks more like they lack an interest in the material that Marvel and DC typically produce. When you think about how comics are viewed as childish, stupid and unsophisticated, particularly by women, that lack of a female presence is hardly surprising.
Does that mean women do not draw? No. You only have to visit a site like deviantart.com to find thousands of very talented female artists. And if you look at the material they draw, it tends to be quite far from the superhero fantasy tales told by the Big Two. Even with some sexism, that does not change women’s interests. Another interesting aspect is that manga written by and for women is actually quite popular in America. It sells very well, and yet when you look at the stories being told, they are not stories that could easily fit into the mythos of Marvel or DC. More so, Marvel’s previous attempts to branch out into that market have failed miserably. Frankly, the manga stories are better.
The criticism of Quesada leaves him with no way out other than to exhibit sexism… towards males. Quesada’s only choice then is to set up an Affirmative Action system within Marvel that would give women the opportunity to work on major titles ahead of any incoming or credentialed creators, except other women. Given that in a year there may only be 3 to 5 positions (both writing and drawing) open, no males could be hired for quite some time, at least until enough women made it to Bendis, Claremont, Jenkins or Miller status. Of course, it is a lot easier to shout discrimination (while being in favor of it towards another group and deeming them sexist because of their gender) than it is to actively sit down and discuss whether there actually is bias or the situation is an honest reflection of women’s interest in the industry.
And no, I have no love for Marvel.
TS
Toy Soldiers 
I don’t know how Joey Q feels about women, but i’m pretty sure your analysis is obtuse. Also, your attempted judo move of claiming that the real danger in questioning women’s exclusion from Marvel is the possibility that *men* might be discriminated against is plain silly.
Quesada’s original answer was a classic non-answer, one that avoided the point of the question and avoided any acknowledgment of responsibility on his part to check against bias, real or percieved, in his hiring processes. I can’t imagine an executive from any other industry being so tone-deaf in his public relations.
To Joe, his answer probably was meant to convey, “hey, no sexism here, we just don’t happen to have any women on our top titles right now” but I’m having a hard time coming up with many examples of female writers on Marvel titles in the entire Jemas/Quesada era. Joe’s answer begs the question, well, *why aren’t* there ever any women working on your top books? Coincidence, the natural order of things, or just possibly the result of a long-standing boy’s club that pushes women away both at the racks and from the offices? This isn’t about quotas, or the pathetic right-wing boogeyman of “political correctness”. There are very talented female writers working in the industry–some of them are at DC. Gail Simone just ended a year-long run on Action Comics. Joe seems far too willing to take “the way things are” at face value, as if he, as head of the most popular comic book company in the country, has no power to influence anything, or no reason to.
As for you, you seem strangely eager to embrace the notion that superhero comics are inherently, happily and irrevocably a playground for males, but why is this neccesarily true? Women don’t have power fantasies? Women don’t like high adventure?Tell that to millions of readers of fantasy fiction, not to mention female readers of Sandman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.
By the time you get to constructing elaborate straw men of Affirmative Action programs discriminating against scores of theoretical innocent men in order to fill half the writing slots at Marvel with untalented women (which, to my knowledge, precisely no one has asked for), I’m afraid you’ve gone so far into your paranoia that you’ve lost me.
So, instead of taking Quesada’s comment at face value, it should automatically be assumed the absence of women in the top ranks at Marvel is due to sexism? Only bias against women would cause that?
The response has not been women should have an opportunity to break into the industry. The response is that women should be in the top ranks because they are women. That is a politically correct response. Gail Simone should not be allowed into the top ranks because she is talented, but because she is a talented woman. That utterly undermines Simone’s skill as a writer.
Yes, women do have “power fantasies.” In fact, the manga industry is full of female creators who write/draw extremely popular series that are just as violent and action-oriented as anything males produce. Not surprisingly, their audience is primarily female. A great example would be anything by CLAMP. They are insanely popular and successful, with some incredibly violent material, and yet their audience is primarily female. The American comic book audience is primarily male. That is not an eager embrace of misogyny, just a fact. The majority of the stories are tailored towards a male audience. That does not mean no females will like those stories. But that also does not change that the majority of the fans of those kinds of adventure tales are male.
I said nothing about untalented female artists, and frankly I resent the implication. If Marvel adopts an Affirmative Action policy, they would have to deliberately discriminate against males. Simply put, if Marvel was approached by two equally talented people, male and female, you are suggesting Marvel should hire the female because she is female. That is discrimination. Labeling criticism of your opinions “paranoid” with reactionary straw men undermines the points you made, and it becomes painfully obvious that there is no room for open discussion because you have already made up your mind.
TS
You’re not going to be ignored on G-W because you’re a fanboy- one of the admins and several frequent posters are possessors of the penis.
However, we will make fun of your notion that having ovaries somehow means that we can’t possibly like superhero comics.
I’m flabbergasted. Did you even read the article you linked? Does the word “privilege” mean anything to you?
You say:
But aside from Joe Qesada and you, no one has suggested such a thing. It’s a good straw man to argue against, but having defeated the straw man, the problem remains. Real women have experienced real discrimination in the comics industry. Anyone interested in this topic knows that, but I assume your interest goes only as deep as dismissing any suggestion that there might be a problem that people need to take responsibility for.
” you are suggesting Marvel should hire the female because she is female”
I suggested nothing of the kind. Or are you talking of a generallized “you”? I agreed that there is a problem. I didn’t dictate a solution out of some Republican’s nightmare vision of Librulz Gone Wild.
The only concrete fact we have is a look at who actually writes what for Marvel. Right now, and for the past several years, it’s like a reverse Y the Last Man. Marvel’s defenders go back to Gail on Deadpool, as far back as Weezie Simonson on X-Factor. In this lopsided environment, asking why is a legitimate question. Answering “because that’s just how it is” is a woefully inadequate answer, one that allows all of Joe’s assumptions to go unquestioned. In an industry rife with tales of sexual discrimination and abuse, of beloved, avuncular old editors “playing” grab-ass and trying to extort sexual favors from female creators, and of comics that gleefully treat women as objects, his answer starts to sound worse than inadequate. It starts to sound like a lie. If Joe had had the savvy to simply say, “Man, you don’t think we wouldn’t love to pull Gail Simone or Devin Grayson back over here to write us some X-Men? We’re always on the lookout. Women, men, anybody, send us your pitches!” this wouldn’t have turned into anything.
But Joe didn’t say that, most likely because he doesn’t give a shit, and never really has to think about it. He, with fans like you as accomplices, is happy with the status quo, and a Marvel that is self-evidently modeled after Tubby’s clubhouse.
Elizabeth, there are dozens of very talented men who are not a part of Marvel’s
circle-jerkinner circle. Why is that? Many of them have been in the industry for decades. Why are they not given the opportunity to work on mainstream books like Xmen, Superman, Spiderman and etc.?The portrayal of the industry as a bastion of sexism is utterly unjustified, particularly when you consider how hard it is to break into the industry and few positions that are available when you do get in. So far, every critic of Quesada has suggested that women should be in those positions because there are not any women there. If it were based purely on talent (unless you are suggesting there are no men equally or more talented than women), you would have instances where no women would be chosen for no other reason than the number of women interested in comics is much lower than the number of men.
The industry has a lot of problems with its portrayal of women (I still cannot make sense of Starfire’s “costume”), and some women have experienced discrimination. Oddly enough, so have black, latino and asian creators. You do not, however, solve that problem by forcing companies to hire women over men (by giving women “more opportunities” to break in), and you certainly do not solve it by using biased pejoratives like “privileged,” “sexist,” and “misogynistic.” That prevents any real discussion from happening as it forces male creators and fan boys to defend themselves.
——–
Two things, Cole. One, you are barking up the wrong tree with the Republican comments, and belittling a counter opinion as a delusion is an excellent way to show you have no interest in a real discussion. You also did not disagree with the suggestion that if two talented people applied at Marvel, the female should be hired “on principle.”
Two, if Quesada had responded as you (literally you) suggested, and the industry is indeed overtly, uncontrollably sexist, then critics would have rolled their eyes, said he is covering it up and claimed those are the only women in comics he knows of. I do not doubt Quesada wants to maintain the status quo Marvel, especially since all those guys appear to be friends. But the criticism of “there aren’t any female writers working on any of our major titles” implies there should be women working on those titles. So far, no one has provided any explanation as to why women should be on those titles other than there are few women in the industry. That also is a woefully inadequate response.
I think it’s terrible that there’s no women writing comic books. My mom is a super talented fantasy writer who sits at home thinking up stories all day, or at least she says she does.
She also makes chocolate c*cks in the kitchen when my friends used to come over. Maybe that’s why they stopped coming over…?
Anyway, who cares since I hopped onto the bus the day after graduation so I could live with my Dad who I always liked better anyway. It’s so much more comfortable living here with my dad instead of my kooky mom and her creepy husband.
The only problem is that Dad and I are living on rice and pasta since he’s still paying child support even though I live with HIM! Oh well, that’ll be over in December.
But yeah my mom’s a super talented writer who should be doing comics at Marvel. And I bet she’d be the first to tell you that!
Way to take my comment out of context and use it to support your claim that you’ll be dismissed because of your gender. Bravo. Really, I never saw that one coming.
For anyone who cares, I didn’t dismiss Quesada for being a man, and I followed up that paragraph with:
Quesada has every right to have an opinion. There are many ways in which his opinion is a fair and valid one. But, get this, the female experience isn’t one of them. I know, shocking to think that someone who has never been socialized or experienced life as a woman could therefore not be seen as the authority on the experience of women in comics.
Toysoldier, seriously. Find someone else to scapegoat for your “I’m silenced because I’m a man!” strawman argument.
So far, every critic of Quesada has suggested that women should be in those positions because there are not any women there.
No, so far every critic of Quesada has suggested that when the issues of lack of female writers, and trouble cracking female demographics, and treatment of female characters — you know, pertinent issues that are covered with the simple question “There are no women on that list, why is that?” — by avoiding to answer it. And then when he does, he says flat out that any possibility of sexism in the industry is “ridiculous” and that he has a wife and daughter and therefore can’t be sexist himself.
At the very least adding “I wish we had a more diverse creative team, that’s why I approached Ms Pierce” to his answer of “No female writers on current books” would have been acknowledging the issue. But he didn’t. He tried to weasel out of it.
Hi tekanji! I usually go by the name jaketk, so we have met before.
Interesting. You just stated:
Honestly, what opinion could I or Quesada have about this issue if our gender prevents us from having even a semblance of what the female experience in the comic book industry is? More so, according to your own logic, you cannot be seen as an authority on the experience of men in comics because you have never been socialized or experience life as a man. An interesting example of hypocracy considering argument relies on telling people what the male experience is in comparison to that of women. In other words, you can know all about Quesada, but he cannot know anything about women in comics? That is considering Quesada’s opinions fair and valid?
I guess that blows your statement that I would not be dismissed because of my gender right out of the water. Thanks, tekanji!
Ragnell states:
Firstly, Quesada was not given a chance to answer. Once feminists got wind of his statement, the man was labeled as a sexist. The expectation was then that he would address why he and the industry are sexist , not why few women are in the industry. He responded by suggesting that the disparity might be due to women’s general lack of interest in the art. Instead of accepting his response, his critics’ state it is sexism and only sexism that causes the disparity. None of the critics are willing to look at what women’s interests are as whole when it comes to art and literature. They simply avoid it. So now we have this interesting conundrum of the pot calling the kettle black. Quesada may not entertain the idea of sexism in the industry (doubtful, yet possible), but his critics do not entertain the idea that the majority of women simply are not interested in the industry. No, he and the industry must be sexist.
In other words, instead of him simply answering the question, you would rather him play politics and say what you would like hear?
Toysoldier — I’d rather he show some respect for the feminine gender.
Ragnell, I think you want acquiescence, not respect.
No, that would imply insincerity.
Conformity is often insincere, particularly when it is forced.
TSm — We aren’t trying to force conformity. We’re demanding the respect we deserve.
What we HAVE is conformity.
No, what you are demanding is a politically correct response. Respect is earned, not deserved. Ironically, you fail to show any respect to the masculine gender. I suppose we are less deserving of it, correct?
Wait, wait, wait… Respect must be earned by women, yet is deserved to men? By what virtue? Shouldn’t we respect people by virtue of their being human?
I did not say that. Respect is earned, not deserved. But your apparent unwillingness to extend it to males implies that they either have not earned it or, in your own words, are less deserving of it. Granted, I fail to see what respect has to do with marketing to one group over another.
TS — The unwillingness is only apparent to you. I am thrilled to extend it to a man who has earned my respect. My bosses, my father, my brother, certain writers like Geoff Johns and Greg Rucka, intelligent businessmen like Dan Didio… You have done nothing to earn my respect. And Mr. Quesada has said quite a bit to lose it.
The ad hominem aside, what have you done to earn Johns’, Rucka’s, Didio’s, Quesada’s or any male creator’s respect? You seem to hold them in contempt, so how exactly do you respect them? Also, out of curiosity, what does a man have to do to earn your respect?
By the way, I extend respect to people even if they do not respect me, so while you may not care that I respect you and your opinion, I still extend it.
TS — Here’s the thing, I’m not asking them to respect an individual. I’m asking them to respect half of humanity and treat them as human.
You’re saying that women need to earn the respect that men are automatically given.
And I very much doubt you respect my opinion, otherwise you would bother to read it before you answered.
Ragnell, how do you know male creators don’t respect half of humanity and treat them as human? Could not the same claim be made about you and other feminists?
Also, respecting your opinion, that is your right to have that opinion, does not mean I must agree with it. Futhermore, your opinions have nothing to do with your humanity. I can respect you as a person and still disagree with your ideas. It is unfortunate you do not do the same, but I can do nothing to change that.