Cassie Jaye, the director of the Red Pill, released several videos of her unedited interviews from the film. I found her interview with male feminist Michael Kimmel particularly interesting. Kimmel is well-known for his anti-male stance, most notably his complete dismissal of physical and sexual violence against men and boys.
His essential argument is, “women’s violence toward male partners certainly does exist, but it tends to be very different from that of men toward their female partners: It is far less injurious and less likely to be motivated by attempts to dominate or terrorize their partners.”
His concern for women’s violence against men is not that the men and boys can be and are victims. Indeed, he dismisses such violence as merely women defending themselves against male abusers. His concern is purely on how “acknowledging” — if one can call it that — women’s violence against men could help prevent violence against women.
This is precisely the attitude Kimmel displays in his interview with Jaye. He simply lies about the men’s rights movement, lies about their concerns, and lies about their methods. He also ignores men’s experiences, giving the false impression that men essentially have no legitimate fears or concerns.
Yet like many feminists, Kimmel is incapable of maintaining the lie for very long because he wants to convince men that they should side with feminists. As such, he inadvertently undermines his own argument, particularly the feminist argument about male power.
The interview is a thing to behold simply because you are watching intellectual dishonesty at its finest. In the interview, Jaye asks Kimmel if we live in a rape culture. Kimmel states:
Here’s the question: Do you know any women who don’t think about this when they go out at night? Do you know any women who don’t say, “Well, jeez, I’m parked in a kind of remote parking lot. It’s a little late.” Or you know, “Gee it’s getting kind of late, should I stay in the library any longer? Maybe I should go back to my room. Maybe I should go back home.” You Know, “I don’t know about going out it by myself late at night down in this neighborhood.”
You Know any women who don’t think about that? Okay, so we live in a rape culture. We live in a culture in which rape is on people’s minds, on women’s minds. If 51% of the population is concerned about something and the 49% who loves them and care about them, who are married to them, who love them, who are their fathers, who are their sons, who care about them. If we all don’t think about this a lot, then yes we live in a rape culture.
This is a common feminist response to this question, and it is one that is most infuriating because it completely ignores men’s experiences. Kimmel’s argument is that women are afraid of assault, implying that men are not afraid. Kimmel implies that unlike women, men do not think to themselves, “This is a really remote parking lot and it’s kind of late.” Men do not think, “It’s getting late. Should I stay in the library or go home?” Men do not think, “I don’t know, this is a dodgy neighborhood. Maybe I shouldn’t be out here late at night.”
In Kimmel’s world, like in many feminists’ world, men neither experience or face any risks in life. A 20-something man can walk down a dark street with $100 bills hanging off his clothes and no one would touch him. It is not as if a well-known actor working as an activist could get robbed at gunpoint while walking down a Washington D.C. street. It is not as if men are statistically between two to four times more likely to experience assault compared to women.
The evidence is clear: men face greater risk of violence than women. The evidence also shows, however, that as a society we teach women to be fearful of what can happen to them while we teach men to keep it to themselves. As a result, women are more likely to express their fear of doing things while men are more likely to keep it to themselves, act tough, or joke about it. The fact remains, however, that there is a far greater risk for Kimmel to be assaulted walking alone at night than there is for Jaye.
The twist that Kimmel attempts to use is playing on men’s desire to protect those they love. The problem with this approach is that the fear that women experience is irrational and illogical. They simply are not likely to be victims of rape. The majority of women — at least 75% of women — will never experience any form of sexual violence. While a 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 chance is rather high, it remains true that it is still not likely to happen to you.
To put this in perspective, 1 in 4 Americans are lactose intolerant, and yet one still finds that most restaurants offer diary products, that ice cream shops are still in business, and that people will still put cheese on virtually everything. In proportional comparison, there are more lactose intolerant people than there are female victims of sexual violence, yet no one would suggest making people fear they will become lactose intolerant or convincing those without the intolerance that they live in a “lactose intolerant culture”.
Later in the interview, Jaye tells Kimmel that men’s rights activists see feminists as presenting women as victims and men as perpetrators. Kimmel states:
Well see, this is the point that i don’t agree with. I think that the the feminist movement is based on the idea that women have been victims, but Not that men have been the perpetrators.
Then who victimized women? If is is not a person or group, how has this system magically missed men as a group?
This is Kimmel trying to weasel out of the obvious problem with feminism: it blames men not only as a collective, but also as individuals, for women’s problems. You cannot call the source of women’s problem “The Patriarchy”, argue that this “system” grants power and benefits to men as a group and individually, argue that men created and perpetuate this “system,” and then argue that you are not presenting men as the perpetrators. Kimmel never argues that women caused or contribute to any of these problems in the interview. So if it not women, and apparently now not men, who is to blame for the situation?
Kimmel has no answer for that, even though it is fairly obvious to anyone paying attention to his comments in the interview: the blame lies with men.
Where Kimmel slips is in admitting that men do not really have any collective power. He argues that feminism has a “symmetry” to its doctrine: it argues that women lack group and individual power, and that this resonating with women’s experiences. He then states:
Men as a group are in power of course. Obvious. Look at every one of those boards and corporations and universities or whatever and you’ll see men are in power.
That is not evidence that men as a group are in power. It is evidence that men hold positions of power within those institutions. In order to show that men as a group are in power, one would need to show that any man could get said position. We all know that it is not true. One’s race, ethnicity, religion, and economic background all factor into a man’s ability to get one of those positions. Merely being male is not good enough in the majority of situations, so Kimmel disproves his own point.
And then you say, men must therefore feel powerful and that’s where you lose men because most men, if you say, “And therefore most men feel powerful” will look at you like, “What are you talking about? I have no power. My Wife bosses me around. My boss bosses me around. My kids boss me around. I’m completely powerless.” […] The contradiction for men is that all the power in the world didn’t trickle down to individual men feeling powerful. This is really important because most men don’t speak from a position of feeling powerful; they speak from a position of feeling powerless.
And therein lies the problem. Most men are not powerful. Most men do not have any ability to control their situation, and they certainly do not feel in control. Yet the feminist message to men is that they have power even if they are unaware of it, and denying the power is merely an extension of said power. They give men no way out and no potential recognition for their unique experiences of powerlessness.
Now, in case one is tempted to think Kimmel would leave this admission sitting there unmolested, one would be wrong. He immediately states:
And that feeling of powerlessness is real and I think we have to pay attention to it, but I don’t think it’s true in the sense that it’s not an accurate analysis that therefore since you don’t feel powerful men aren’t powerful as a group.
And that is feminism in a nutshell. In one breath, you admit that men lack any power individually, which would suggest they would lack power as a group since individuals should be able to manipulate or benefit from any group power. Yet in the next breath — in this case in the same sentence — you reject that claim by stating the feeling is real, but isn’t true. In other words, men feel powerless as individuals, but they actually do have power as individuals.
What happened is that Kimmel caught himself before he let the truth get too far out of his hands. One cannot argue that someone’s feelings are real, but lack any truth after stating that the feelings are a direct result of their actual experiences.
Kimmel is lying. There is nothing to call it. He knows what he said is false. He simply does not want to give men’s rights activists a single concession because doing so would beg the question why Kimmel and other feminists dismiss these claims when they clearly know the claims are right. He does not want to admit the bias within the feminist movement, and so he lies. He lies about feminists’ motives. He lies about the feminists he knows and their attitudes toward men. He lies about statistics. He lies about the men’s rights movement’s position of domestic violence prevention.
The more untruth he can put out there, the better. Unfortunately for Kimmel and feminists like him, Cassie Jaye is an honest person. Instead of peddling their lies, she placed the feminist statements against the men’s rights statements and let the viewer decide.
Sounds like he read the “Myth of Male Power” so he can feign sympathy then put a spin on it.
“Child support does not exist and never has. It’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of! When was the last time you made your monthly check out in your child’s name? Let’s start calling it what it really is shall we?
And she is legally allowed to spend it on anything she wants including alcohol, cigarettes, Mani-Pedies and her new boys friends truck payment” -Clay Robertson
“Let us be clear, the removal of fathers from the lives of their children is … public … policy“. -Robert Franklin ICMI-14 https://youtu.be/PlkGeu3OO8U
“Men’s rights activists must wake up and realize that the time for trying to counter the hypocrisy with rationality – with essentially male arguments, using facts and truth, in the hope that sense will prevail – is not going to make ANY difference to the relentless feminist long march on men” -Herbert Purdy ICMI-16 https://youtu.be/PjAnRar9p4M
“Everywhere you look—everywhere you look!–there are feminists pushing their way to the front of the line demanding women’s “fair share” of all of the goodies, the good stuff, the loot, the booty, the cookies. Even if women don’t need it. Even if women don’t deserve it. And even if somebody else needs it and deserves it more.
And they get it, because we give it to them”. -Karen Straughn (GirlWritesWhat)
“Let’s be clear; child support and alimony laws aren’t about caring for children. They’re about transferring as much money as possible from men to women.” -Robert Franklin Esq
Every woman knows that if there was only male birth control, she would not feel in control, she would feel out of control. Saying “Trust me” from a man is laughable; “trust me” from a woman is the law. Birth control created the right of women to choose and the expectation of men to trust her. Today, every man who puts a penis in a woman’s body also puts his life in a woman’s hands. -Dr. Warren Farrell. The Myth of Male Power
Ignore your rights and they will go away.
This woman is illogical. Spock would be having a fit.
“Men are good” –Tom Golden
Feminism is a woman’s version of misogyny.
“MGTOW is economics in action” Ed Traum
“The power to govern is a magnet for the predator class. That is why it is common for governments to evolve into crime syndicates. It is the nature of governments to expand their power. Since power leads to corruption, governments eventually become crime syndicates.” -G. Edward Griffen
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
“To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards of men” -Abraham Lincoln
There are many persons ready to do what is right because in their hearts they know it is right. But they hesitate, waiting for the other fellow to make the make the first move – and he, in turn, waits for you. -Marian Anderson
For many years now, we’ve known two important things about “deadbeat dads.” First, they’re not deadbeats and second, they’re not always dads. -Robert Franklin
“Men’s rights are human rights. If that sounds radical, you might ask yourself why you don’t consider men human”? -Hannah Wallen
Red Pill knowledge is like discovering bits and pieces of the puzzle that need to be placed together to make sense – and the rabbit-hole is so deep that every time you may think that you reached the bottom, it goes further down. -Bluntruth
“Child support is not meant for children. It’s a COMMUNIST transfer of wealth scheme.” –Paul M. Clements DADD
“The federal incentives drive the system. The more divorces, and the higher the child-support guidelines are set and enforced (no matter how unreasonable), the more money the state bureaucracy collects from the feds. Follow the money. The less time that non-custodial fathers are permitted to be with their children, the more child support they must pay into the state fund, and the higher the federal bonus to the states for collecting the money.” – Phyllis Schlafly
If a parent was beating a child in public, most people would intervene either by trying to stop the abuse or by calling the authorities. Mothers who limit fathers’ access to their children, who engage in maternal gatekeeping or who interfere with father-child relationships should be treated the same way, but aren’t.
“IT COMES DOWN TO A BASIC BELIEF THAT TO ACHIEVE TRUE EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW, AND IN SOCIETY, WE CANNOT HAVE SPECIAL LEGISLATION OR DISPENSATIONS FOR WOMEN.” -ELLEN ZUCKER, PRESIDENT OF THE BOSTON CHAPTER OF N.O.W. BOSTON GLOBE, JULY 4, 1991
It is clear that most American children suffer from too much mother, and too little father.” -Gloria Steinem
“Everyone knows that restraining orders, and orders to vacate, are granted to virtually all women who apply- – – -In many cases, allegations of abuse are now used for tactical advantage.” ELAINE EPSTEIN, Past President, MA Bar Assoc. (Bar Assoc. Newsletter)
“A parent normally assumes they have a legal right to bring up their child. Taken from numerous first-hand accounts, our legal system does not protect our children from a parent who is pathologically selfish. There is nothing written in law to uphold the equality that most parents assume is their legal right.“ -William Collins
“Overwhelmingly in this country women get custody of the children; thus, overwhelmingly, they are the custodial parent. The evidence suggests that rather than being designed for the interests of children, the Guidelines were designed for the interests of mothers. Divorces are created to transfer amounts of wealth from non-custodial homes to custodial homes. Virtually every choice made in their construction leads to a net transfer.” -Economics professor Douglas Allen
“Feminism cannot be negotiated with, it’s a female supremacy movement driven by the hatred of men and to me the idea that you can negotiate with feminists or that feminists will cede power to men and boys… it’s as fantastic as Jews in the Second World War thinking the Nazis would help them”. –Mike Buchannan. Justice for Men & Boys
“It is difficult to ascertain who is the better parent based on the best interest factors when “a lot of custody cases” are decided after “10 minutes in front of a judge,” who cannot get an accurate picture of the family dynamics in such a short time.
“The current law is not working,” she said. “… Without there being a standard, it really doesn’t depend on who is the best parent. It depends on what judge you have and what county you’re in”. – Linda Wright, chairperson of the Michigan chapter of the National Parents Organization
WOW! It’s cut and paste time. Great quotes, a veritable treasure trove. Thanks.
There is little point in expending any energy with regard to Michale Kimmel. Sooner or later, all male feminists incur the wrath of feminists. It is uncanny how this happens.
A disgusting cocktail of self-contradictions and neo-Victorianism.
Kimmel is an utter pillock.
And as for liar, if one takes a cursory glance at his so-called ‘paper’ about violence etc, most, if not all, of his citations are from the 1980s and 1990s. He’s even got the sheer brass neck to feature one of his own from about 2000! So yeah, his published review isn’t worth the pixels it gets generated on.
“Women are scared of things. Even though most rapes occur in the home of the victim or the rapist, who is probably someone the victim knows. Therefore rape culture.”
Of course, if men are scared of, say, being falsely accused of rape, they don’t matter in Kimmel’s eyes. Even if they have actual evidence. Feminists only seem to apply this whole “fear = risk” standard selectively.
It always amuses me when feminists, which are largely a group of women with power, say women don’t have power.
Delusion and doublethink. I’ve learned there’s no bottom to the nonsense people can believe.
Not really. It only works if he only reaches pro-feminists. If anti-feminists can reach him and contradict him, he loses. Like the famous scathing, extended Amazon review of his book “Guyland”.
“Not really. It only works if he only reaches pro-feminists. If anti-feminists can reach him and contradict him, he loses. Like the famous scathing, extended Amazon review of his book “Guyland”.”
re Hoff summers “The War Against Boys”…
I’m in Australia. I ran funding systems for schools in my state through the eighties and nineties. Hoff Summers absolutely nailed it in that book. What she describes is exactly what we saw in my part of the world. Many of us warned of a tough future for boys in education and have been proven right, but at the time we were branded misogynists.
Thanks for the Guyland review SYABM.
I have a suspicion that in Kimmel’s every interaction with his son he will be placing what he believes to be womens’ interests ahead of his son’s. Odds on the boy is circumcised too.